Thread: The Mighty Frame Saw - which size for resawing?

I bought a kit from a forum member a few years ago, which has a 48" x 3" deep blade.
20210427_170757 (576x1024).jpg
It's really a bit long for the way I have my workshop set up, as there's not quite enough room at the vise end of the bench & I find standing beside the bench awkward. I tend to use my Disston thumb hole rip saw instead.
If you're going to resaw by hand, one of these Kerfing Plane
will make it easier. I still haven't got around to making a new blade for it.

Woolybugger, maybe if its in the way you'd feel that it might look better on my wall?

Can I make you an offer?

Originally Posted by 62woollybugger

If you're going to resaw by hand, one of these Kerfing Plane
will make it easier. I still haven't got around to making a new blade for it.

THAT KERFING PLANE!!!!!!!

WOW!!!!

Mate, that was the next thing on the list

Originally Posted by 62woollybugger

I bought a kit from a forum member a few years ago, which has a 48" x 3" deep blade.
20210427_170757 (576x1024).jpg
It's really a bit long for the way I have my workshop set up, as there's not quite enough room at the vise end of the bench & I find standing beside the bench awkward. I tend to use my Disston thumb hole rip saw instead.
If you're going to resaw by hand, one of these Kerfing Plane
will make it easier. I still haven't got around to making a new blade for it.

Would you mind taking some photos up close of the metal bracket where the blade attaches and then the other side where the screw adjuster presses up against the timber?

I'll get some photos & scan the kerfing plane template tomorrow guys.

Originally Posted by woodPixel

THAT KERFING PLANE!!!!!!!

WOW!!!!

Mate, that was the next thing on the list

you don't need the kerfing plane, though - you'll learn to steer the saw without it and it'll be quicker to go without.

It may be easier to keep the saw tracking in the cut early on, though. I kerfed my first few cuts with a modified saw (with the gullets cut very deep) and forgot about it soon enough that the kerfing plane idea went away - you can nail a cut in an 8 or 4 inch wide board or whatever to pencil mark accuracy (if you're cutting beside a pencil mark and take 25 strokes, step around and look, take another 25, you won't end up leaving the pencil mark on the far side).

If it sounds dopey to stop cutting every 25 strokes, wait until you get a chance to cut something 8-14 inches wide for more than about 5 minutes. It's like a rowing machine in reverse and you'll feel the burn and get sloppy if you try to just saw continuously.

That said, if you want a kerfing plane and like making and using one, then you still should do what you want (it's just not mandatory for accurate work or necessarily faster).

Get the biggest saw you can within reason. My saw is 47 inches (oops, was supposed to be 48) with a .042" thick 1095 plate that's 4" tall - don't be tricked into thinking you want something thinner kerf, etc, you want the rigidity of the blade. It cuts half as wide of a kerf as two maebiki that I have, so even though it sounds like a big plate, it's not really a big plate - the rigidity of it keeps it tracking straight but also allows your steering influence to work.

Anything you'd saw with a smaller frame saw you'd do just as quickly with a coarse tooth hand saw. It's the size, stroke length and weight that will really let you gain something on wider resaws with the frame saw. You just move it and steer it a little.
https://i.imgur.com/k1ypKgy.jpg

This is the back side of a cut for a door panel - you may wonder why the line isn't being split, but it's just because I find it a lot easier to saw accurately beside a line than to constantly guess whether or not I'm splitting it. you can see that the mark is just off center to account for that. I've resawn several boards and blanks for guitar bodies with this, too - up to 15". All have been pleasant and uneventful, in the case with spruce, leaving a clean offcut that will make a nice parlor guitar top.

DW, it looks like you have the Blackburn monster?

Perhaps it was delivered sharpened and drilled?

I ask as I don't mind paying to get a great job... Plus my saw sharpening skills are"beginner"

Delbs, if you're watching and still thinking about it, I priced delivery of two of the 48's and it's the same as a single..... Hmmmm......

actually, it's 100% scratch made. I filed those teeth in - twice.

Once in a shorter thinner plate with the misguided thought that I'd have a thinner and faster kerf with easier steering, and then again with the thicker plate. Still have the thin blade to be made into something else. With a stroke of pure luck, someone was selling an entire box of vintage 8" X-heavy taper files (nicholson) for $25 on ebay - So I wasted six of them on two plates.

At any rate, the overall saw is far less impressive than isaacs - a picture of the entire thing is below. The reason I haven't made better (this was just supposed to be a test frame) is that each time I use it, it works - it's offcuts from making my bench just screwed together and the strip steel is mild steel off of an old jointer belt guard (jointer was junk and long gone - one of the fixed bed types).

All that said, I think the total make time for this was around four hours.

Some things have changed - a 10 foot coil of 1095 was $70 at the time. I made my saw and gave the rest of the coil to steve voigt for some very menial amount. I wished I'd have kept it, but also value steve is a friend so on the balance, feel better about that. The cost of 1095 has nearly doubled as the lone supplier at that price decided not to keep providing it. The screws and wood, nearly nothing. File cost was about $10. Figure $70. and you'd better like filing (if you like hand planing wood, you might like filing heavy filing like this - it's a lot the same. A lot of grunt work that can be made into just exercise and knowing what to pay attention to a little at a time.

filing each full set of teeth was 2 hours of physical work - there's just over 2 per inch.

The biggest problem was, wait for it - you'd expect it to be cutting the teeth, but setting the teeth is actually a problem -they're tall. I set them with a punch now - you only set them when you need to and resharpen with a light touch up every several hours of use, perhaps 5 - you can feel when the saw is no longer resisting. When it's working well, it feels like pushing something through velcro - lots of resistance, but you can feel what the resistance is doing - shearing off wood.

https://i.imgur.com/uCQ1VZ7.jpg

Now, the issues with the test saw that's now probably sawn more than 100 linear feet
* it's too wide. I'm sure all of the patterns are narrower. I don't remember what I was thinking, but I end up gripping the frame on the inside. ever do too many pushups and get that armpit feeling burn when your other muscles aren't tired? with that wide grip, that's what you get. IT's better to have the grip in closer to your body and generate most of the force with a dance move and less with arms and less stability with armpits. Steering isn't affected with a narrower grip, it's subtle and all the time to steer
* it's ugly. That's hard to solve without making another one

I want to make a smaller one first, not because it's useful, but because someone sent me a 3 foot length of hitachi resaw blade and wants to know how it works. Not sure if the wrong of ugliness will be righted with a pretty saw.

I kind of like ugly tools that work well - you feel no obligation to be precious with them. This saw can be totally efficient and still wear me out, and that is a physically wonderful feeling in the shop (vs. something like cutting rows of dovetails, which aggravates minor arthritis for me and doesn't give the clear headed brisk feeling).

One last thought - when you use something like this in actual work, it does make fine dust. Nothing compared to power tools, but you will breathe it and see it even though 99 percent of it drops to the floor. If you feel really smart about putting a light fan breeze in your face ....well, you'll feel the fine dust going into your eyes!!

I sold my bandsaw years ago when I made this because it's better at resawing large boards than a mid-grade bandsaw and unless you're cutting hundreds of feet, it's hardly any more of a nuisance to use (figure a 10x4 foot cherry board will be about 15 minutes of sawing and there's no changing blades around on a bandsaw). I wouldn't wish for my saw back as it was certainly faster when working well or not wandering, but it was the Jet 18" cast trunnion type and wandering was common. Using it wasn't effortful, but it was less enjoyable

(unless making a saw looks really attractive, I'd buy the well made bits from isaac pre cut, set and sharpened and build around them. I enjoy the challenge of making things, and the physical sensation of doing something new and getting good at it - but am not as good/conscientious about making a final version after an initial one works well).

I'm sure I talked to isaac at the time - using the resaw broke my previous lighter weight bench, and the type of vise hardware that I have has a whole lot to do with finding something that would secure the wood as a typical record type vise will not handle this and you'll need to use clamps elsewhere or some kind of setup. A leg vise does it well by itself. I remember isaac also showing a setup at the time before he went commercial or at the same time that used a bunch of bessey clamps, but that is really a pain, as you will cut about 6-8 inches of wood, loosen the vise, lift the wood, rinse and repeat. If you have to twist clamp handles turned super tight, it's not that great.

My bench is crude and heavy and I haven't regretted it (the legs are 5 1/2" square and mortised into the top and even of the stringer wedges aren't tapped in tight, the mortises are strong enough that the legs are still rigid).

Important to keep that work holding thing in mind here.

My mantra is never to use any tool larger than necessary! At a minimum, the blade should be slightly longer than twice the length of the cut being made. The rationale is that it will clear the sawdust on each full stroke. A good coarse-toothed ripsaw will certainly cut the sizes you mention, as DW has said, and may be easier to use if you are not familiar with frame saws.

A frame saw has got to be one of the easiest of tools to construct. Mine took no more than a couple of hours to make, the frame is held by loose tenons and the tensioning device was made from an M12 bolt with a couple of hacksaw cuts: 6 Tidied up.jpg

I found it awkward to steer accurately, compared with my 5-3tpi Disston 28". That was partly due to inexperience & because of the too-narrow blade I used, but I'm very familiar with my couple of bowsaws & thought I'd be able to cut straight with a 3/4" blade easily. I can't as it turns out, but running a small kerf each side of the cut does keep it running straight, particularly if I reverse the wood every 150mm or so. An interesting point is that I used the lightest dimensions & materials I reckoned to be compatible with structural requirements, and my saw weighs in at 960g. If you pick up the Disston, it feels heavier, but the scales say otherwise - 860g!

I think the perceived ease of use of a framesaw is all in the blade. Having a blade in tension means it can be thinner & narrower, hence less friction & less effort overall. However, for occasional use, the old Disston does a sterling job & I don't expend enough extra calories to be concerned. Different matter if you want to re-saw many boards on a daily basis, of course.

So my frame saw spends most of its time hanging on the wall gathering dust. Some day I will get/make a better blade & it might suddenly become a more valued member of the team....

Cheers,

Here you go Delbs, the photos you asked for. 20210428_100422 (1024x576).jpg 20210428_100604 (1024x576).jpg
The eye bolt has a point ground on it, to locate in the countersink on the plate that is set into the handle. It screws into a threaded "T" headed bush that just sits in the hole in the bracket.

Ian, I wish mine was that light, just weighed it and it comes in at a touch under 7.5kg.

I've also apdated my thread on my kerfing plane with the PDF for the template & some more photos.

Originally Posted by 62woollybugger

....Ian, I wish mine was that light, just weighed it and it comes in at a touch under 7.5kg....

Hmm, twice the size, but 7 times the weight!

I guess you used the frame dimensions specified by Blackburn? If you used a local hardwood you could probably have reduced the size a bit without losing too much stiffness. That is a serious saw, good for 500mm wide boards (or 600 if you felt up to it) and waaay more saw than you'd need or want to re-saw 200mm boards imo. But each to his own, it would save a bit on gym fees if you use it regularly..

Cheers,

IanW, I feel this bod could do with a bit more "Gym" so a bit saw may be worthy

DW, I like you saw and its ... rustic... approach. The notch for the blade, the way the blade is held in place and the dual-wedge tensioning is clever.


Now, gets, may I suggest a sacrilege / heresy? What would happen if I took a 28" saw and mounted the blade in a frame? Useful?

I ask as I was looking around on eBay at saws and HOOLEY DOOLEY do they sell for a lot. Madness. I was thinking a llooong saw blade would be suitable?

I think Ill put up a wanted ad for a manky 28" handsaw blade.

Something of now real value, handless, etc...