Thread: Mitor Plough Plane

Patrick's prices are generally double open market prices. it does look like that plane is still cheaper than a record 043 would be, and uncommon enough that there isn't much sold stock to see what it goes for other than a UK listing for a complete plane at 27 pounds.

It is not a great time to buy complete used tools, though, and may never be again. The whole stumpy nubs/paul sellers type thing, selling ads or making revenue links (the former, not sure about the latter) touting specific older tools just drives gobs of people who will never use the tools to go out and imagine they will and buy them.

I guess that will preserve them for later generations, though.

Originally Posted by D.W.

..... people who will never use the tools to go out and imagine they will and buy them....

......I guess that will preserve them for later generations, though......

Well, many, if not most of us, have surely been through a stage of wanting or acquiring tools that we think we need but rarely or never use. Some never seem to get past it. If I hadn't been a rather impecunious chap when I started 'serious' woodworking, I'd have ended up with several cupboards full of tools that would have remained in pristine condition ready for the next owner. Tool catalogues have a lot to answer for!

An 043 was my introduction to plough planes; I built a set of kitchen cupboards for my mum and grooved all the doors for plywood panels with an 043. I can vouch that the darned thing is not comfortable to use for long sessions! The handle of the Mitor looks like it might be a teeny bit less unpleasant but I guess you'd need to use it a while to confirm that.

These little gadgets are very handy for small jobs, but that small size & light weight don't help on a sizable job, you just don't get the sort of momentum you get from something like my old rosewood Sandusky:

pic1.jpg

OTH, it's way too cumbersome for small parts. But when I had my brain fart to put my mini tool-chest together, I included a (roughly) half-size copy of the Sandusky:

18 sizes cf.jpg

It's actually more practical than I expected & was the bees' knees for grooving the small parts for drawers & partitions in the little chest. The only problem was the small escapement is a bit prone to choking & needs frequent clearing when taking heavy cuts.

So after thinking I should look out for an 043 or the Stanley equivalent for occasional small jobs for 40 years or more, I don't need one now....

Cheers,

Originally Posted by D.W.

Patrick's prices are generally double open market prices. it does look like that plane is still cheaper than a record 043 would be, and uncommon enough that there isn't much sold stock to see what it goes for other than a UK listing for a complete plane at 27 pounds.

It is not a great time to buy complete used tools, though, and may never be again. The whole stumpy nubs/paul sellers type thing, selling ads or making revenue links (the former, not sure about the latter) touting specific older tools just drives gobs of people who will never use the tools to go out and imagine they will and buy them.

I guess that will preserve them for later generations, though.

Agree on the plow planes. No all metal plane will hang with a wooden fenced larger plow plane, but the screw arm plow that I have won't work close to the edge of work. It's nice to have a small metal plane of some sort for small grooves, but they are torture to do a large volume of plowing in hardwoods because they have to have a tight grip.

the mitor version with the handle looks far more comfortable because it'll allow a "loose hand" applying power.

I don't have anything really small - had the LV small plow plane, but like the marples ##C plastic handled plow planes better. I think the one I have is an 050. Too bad those have also gone up in price - I think the version that I have with a whole gaggle of blades was about $45 pretty much unused.

Open-sided planes with a wooden skate and fixed fence are really nice for doors and drawer grooves, too. Almost free to make and work much better than plow planes because the plane is all wood surfaces and the support for the cut is a wooden skate only a tiny fraction less wide than the iron - there isn't a big unsupported cut.

Originally Posted by D.W.

....... but the screw arm plow that I have won't work close to the edge of work...

Do you mean starting & ending the groove, or cutting close to an edge? The fence on the Sandusky extends under the body, with a cut-out to fit around the depth stop, so it can be set right up to the edge of the cutter - it can cut a rebate if you wanted.

I can have trouble starting a heavy cut neatly because the fence doesn't extend far in front of the cutter, so I need to concentrate & hold it firmly against the edge of the work to align it, as well as holding the plane perpendicular to the surface. I guess that's true for any plough plane, but the size & weight of the Sandusky makes it more of a conscious effort. Once the sole & fence are fully engaged, the plane scoots along nicely - as I said, all that heft gives it some useful momentum.

I should fess up that when making a batch of new drawers or similar, I tend to cut grooves on the tablesaw. It's mainly when making or repairing sides for an old piece & where using machines seems inappropriate that the old plough comes out to do its thing. Whenever I do get it out, I enjoy using it, & always think I should use it more often, but somehow, the next time I have a batch of new drawer sides to groove, I tend to turn immediately to the tablesaw. There are many jobs that hand tools can do at least as efficiently as powered equivalents, but my plough isn't in the race when it comes to grooving a whole batch of sides for a chest of drawers, we're talking literally a few minutes vs an hour of work, with no worries about grain direction & no risk of splintering or tear-out.....

Cheers,

I’ve come to the conclusion that ebay listing numbers do not lie, old timers knew their stuff and if a tool is rare good chance is that there’s a reason why it didn’t sell.

I could live with the handle on the Mitor, it seems adequate but there are a few other things which mean the plane will probably sit on the shelf and I’ll lift the 043 when I need a small plough.

Firstly adjusting the cutter is difficult, on the 043 it’s easy to slack off the holder and adjust the depth in small increments. The higher handle on the Mitor above the end of the cutter made this awkward, plus the tapered bolt holder doesn’t have an easily adjusted state, slacking off the nut and the blade is still wedged in tight until it suddenly loosens and falls down.
The 043 uses the same length cutters as the 405 and 13-050, long enough to easily hold and access in initial insertion and adjustment. Mitor cutters are much shorter, probably to allow space between the top and the handle for an adjusting tap but it just seemed awkward.
I could probably live with this if that were the only problem, the cutters were awkward to adjust but not an insurmountable problem.

What I really found difficult to work with is the small nose on the skate and short fence in front of the cutter. With the cutter eventually set for a fine cut I had no problem starting at the front of my test board and working back wards. But at the end of the cut as I worked back the short nose in front of the blade made it difficult to register the plane for a clean completion to the groove. I’ve never had this problem with a bigger plough plane. The 043 has a slightly longer nose and deeper fence. The fence on the Mitor isn’t very deep below the blade at all. I found it frustrating to use if I had to lift the plane to clear shavings (and the Mitor did seem to clog up more often than larger planes), it took concentration to put the plane back and register the shallow fence correctly against the edge of the stock. I could stick on a larger fence but that negates the small size of the Mitor, and a stuck on fence isn’t easily changed.

Having had a play with the Mitor I’m impressed by the original Record designers of the 043, for a small plough plane they seem to have got the size spot on.

The Mitor is an interesting historical object but unfortunately I can’t see a situation where it would be preferable to the 043.

My 043 wood fence is the same size as the metal fence, it isn’t a large wood fence exaggerating the size difference.
The Mitor 88 has a much shallower fence and shorter nose than the 043.

043 wood fence.jpg fence depth comparison with 043.jpg

Jim, I recognise instantly what you are describing with the difficult starting - it's common to most ploughs & rebates to some degree, & many "how-tos" I've seen advocate starting rebates & grooves at the exit end & working back, to alleviate the wobbly entry problem. But the problem is obviously compounded in the Mitor's case by that very short nose & having so little fence to register against the workpiece.

It's interesting how such small details can make a big difference to the performance of a plane; I've made a few little "discoveries" like that in the course of my plane-making, and unfortunately, they weren't obvious to me until too late. Mitor must not have done much pre-production testing, or you would think they'd have picked up the deficiencies with that nose/fence arrangement. It looks like it's only about 7-8mm shorter than the 043 - a slightly longer nose & fence surely wouldn't have added significantly to either size or cost of the tool, but might've made a big difference to user satisfaction...?

Cheers,
Ian

The Record #043 is a great little plough, and I use it when working on smaller pieces. There are two ways to improve it further, one of which is a modification I would do to the Mitor plough.

Firstly, add a sub-fence. This add so much better registration for vertical orientation …



Looking at the photo below, it occurs to me that I added the slot to the depth stop screw. I do this with all my planes as it aids in tightening … nothing worse than a slipping depth stop!



The second mod is to use the blades for the Veritas Small Plow (seen above). Obviously, the #043 does not have a projection adjuster, and is adjusted manually, but the Veritas blades fit well. This allow for better steel and finish, as well as a larger range available.

Lastly, if Ian gets to post his plough, then so will I

The bridal arm and adjuster creates a rock solid and accurate platform, and it is very easy to adjust and lock in …







As much as I enjoy using this plane (built in 2012), I prefer the easy set up of the Veritas plough planes.

Regards from Perth

Derek

I can’t begin to compete with the home-made plough planes of Ian and Derek.
Gentlemen, your work is inspiring and I’m in awe of your skills and workmanship.

However since we’re showing off home-made plough plane related items here is my goto plough plane, a Stanley46, together with the blade set I made for it.

46andmitor.jpg


The pic foreshortening makes the Mitor look bigger in comparison than it really is.

Side by side the Mitor 88 is tiny compared to the 46.

sizecomparison.jpg

PS I know the sliding section is outside the fence on the 46. I didn’t want to disturb the current fence setting on the 46 so I just slipped the sliding section on the end of the rods.

I was about to make a deeper fence for it and then paused. While the deeper fence would be useful if this was my only plough plane I can’t see me ever using the Mitor if I can fit in the Stanley 46.

I ended up making a longer wooden fence but the same depth as the shallow stock metal fence. My thinking behind this is that with the very shallow fence on the Mitor I could use it as a drawer bottom groove plane. The fence is shallow enough that I could cut a 6mm drawer groove on ½” stock without having to have the stock overhang the bench or needing to use any kind of sticking board.

fence and cut depth.jpg


The longer fence makes a big difference when I’ve worked backwards along my board.
Previously because there’s a cut-out in the metal fence at the blade I was trying to press the length of fence shown by the small blue line on the pic against the stock and the plane could swivel back at the blade, now with the longer continuous fence I can press the whole red line against the stock.

better registration lines.jpg


I tried sticking the wood fence to the metal but gave up, I’d have had to use epoxy to hold it securely. It was easy enough to drill the metal fence, the two end castings are meaty enough that they might have been designed to be drilled.

final small fence.jpg


A couple of other small changes to make the plane more useable, I slotted the small depth stop nut as per Derek’s example above. With such a small nut the depth stop did move on me a couple of times with just finger tightening.

slotted stop screw.jpg


The handle is comfortable enough as you push it forward, however the front edge is annoying as you lift and move the plane. I took a short length of clear tubing and slit it. Slipped over the front edge it makes the handle much more comfortable.

handle tube.jpg


I think the blades came wrapped in a piece of paper in the original packaging going by the ebay examples, I made a small box to keep them together and protected.


blade box.jpg

Originally Posted by IanW

Do you mean starting & ending the groove, or cutting close to an edge? The fence on the Sandusky extends under the body, with a cut-out to fit around the depth stop, so it can be set right up to the edge of the cutter - it can cut a rebate if you wanted.

Close to the edge. Start and finish, they should all be pretty good as long as the skates haven't gotten uneven in height or wonky over the years.

My screw arm plane is a mathieson and the depth stop is so wide that it hits the fence before the fence can get close to the skate. Something like 1/4 to 3/8" shy. I was surprised by that, but I guess they expected if you were rebating, you'd be using a moving fillister and if you were cutting close in grooves, it would be seldom and maybe better suited to a plane designed just for that.

I just looked at it for the first time in a while as I thought maybe the threads ran out, but they don't. It's the depth stop that separates the fence a certain distance from the skate. The plane is all original.

I've got two small planes for no good reason, though. One being the plastic handled marples, which is a delight, and the other being an all metal red marples copy of the stanley 50 - I just don't have the heart to sell it because it's complete with a million blades in little red marples branded pouches.

the plastic handled plane came with a wooden fence slip already installed and makes much less friction. It's enough bigger than the LV small plow, and the whole thing was about the cost of two LV blades. The blades are relatively soft compared to a lot of stuff now, but that's not a bad thing in a plow - the cut width is narrow, the idea is stick removal and quick refreshing of a fiddly small iron is nicer than extending the sharpening interval a little.

At any rate, the mathieson for bulk work (which is rare) and the plastic handled marples for everything else is a nice 1-2. I made separate open mortise grooving planes for drawer grooves a while ago, so plow plane use of any type now is a bit rare.

A wooden moving fillister is just dominant for cutting out rebates once you get one set up right, and paired with a smaller rebate plane if there's tearout where it's important, faster than anything else I've had.