Thread: "Mouldings in Practice"... or Just in General

Originally Posted by Luke Maddux

Unfortunately, there aren't. The first couple of chapters are about why moulding planes (specifically H&Rs) are important, then most of it is about the mechanics of setting it up. Then the back of it has some appendices which include a bunch of layout suggestions for historic mouldings, a bit about restoration, a bit about sticking boards, and some acknowledgements.

I, personally, didn't really find it to be as intuitive a process as you did. I always knew that there had to be a "trick", and that there was no way mouldings would be exclusively done freehand, but the whole process of setting up rebates, using snipe bills and side rounds, building a sticking board, and using rebate planes without a fence was Greek to me until reading this book.

That's too bad (about the design). I can't remember where, but I saw a drawing of the end of a moulding laid out in rabbet plane cuts, and someone said what a sticking board was on one of the forums a decade ago. It helped to have seen those two things, I guess. If I hadn't, I'd have needed a book for them. The rest of the details are probably better learned by experience rather than reading (like accidentally overcutting or undercutting a mortise).

I'd bet in furniture and architectural work, the guys who did that work knew most of what they knew from experience and training their eyes in the field to know what things should look like. The eye and brain in terms of orientation and proportion is the really valuable part.

I think what you're referring to is what George Walker covers in his design articles in Popular Woodworking and the recent Lost Art Press book By Hand and Eye.

In terms of Moldings in Practice for me a key learning was the use of rebates to establish the "squared" outline of a molding before setting to work with a molding plane. Prior to that, my approach would have been to commence cutting with the molding plane. Much in the same way a plow plane is used.

The guys who did the furniture and architectural work "in the old days" learnt through some form of apprenticeship -- and what is curious to us (now) is that early manuals on wood working commence with a largish section on geometry. (Thanks to Chris Schwarz and George Walker, for that last bit)

Originally Posted by ian

I think what you're referring to is what George Walker covers in his design articles in Popular Woodworking and the recent Lost Art Press book By Hand and Eye.

In terms of Moldings in Practice for me a key learning was the use of rebates to establish the "squared" outline of a molding before setting to work with a molding plane. Prior to that, my approach would have been to commence cutting with the molding plane. Much in the same way a plow plane is used.

The guys who did the furniture and architectural work "in the old days" learnt through some form of apprenticeship -- and what is curious to us (now) is that early manuals on wood working commence with a largish section on geometry. (Thanks to Chris Schwarz and George Walker, for that last bit)

I don't have the george walker book, but probably. i think I saw the same thing in an architecture book, but it even goes to just general sense once someone learns basic design - how the work will be viewed. It's like cutting a facet on something in a direction that the light will reflect back to the person viewing - it's a waste of time unless someone sees it at the proper angle.

No clue about who learned what in terms of apprenticeships, but here in the states, factories probably eliminated fine-work apprenticeships at least 100+ years ago. A lot of what people learn is just sense, experience and picking up things here and there after that. I talk to George Wilson a lot, and if you want to talk about executing something, he will talk about it, but he's obsessed with design and if you ask who he learned from, he only really mentions his design instructor (a well known designer in the states named Riemann - not the Riemann involved with sums of anything, though!!). I've seen his answer when anyone asks how he learned to do something in terms of execution, and he almost always says "the hard way".

We shouldn't discount ourselves in terms of what we can figure out with some experimentation - we really own the knowledge that we put together on our own and it sticks a lot longer and has fewer boundaries.

Originally Posted by D.W.

...It helped to have seen those two things, I guess. If I hadn't, I'd have needed a book for them...

Yeah, it's definitely one of those things that kind of "clicks" fairly quickly. If I had some moulding planes to play with and I had seen a couple of forum posts about rebates etc I probably could've figured it out, but the book just shows all that in really good breakdown.

That said, I still don't have any hollows, rounds, snipe bills, or side rounds. At this point I've just done a bit of practicing with rebate setup.

But soon...

Originally Posted by Luke Maddux

Yeah, it's definitely one of those things that kind of "clicks" fairly quickly. If I had some moulding planes to play with and I had seen a couple of forum posts about rebates etc I probably could've figured it out, but the book just shows all that in really good breakdown.

That said, I still don't have any hollows, rounds, snipe bills, or side rounds. At this point I've just done a bit of practicing with rebate setup.

But soon...

I don't know what the situation is with moulding planes in the UK, but I made most of a half set of my own H&rs, and then just out of curiosity, bought a half set of skewed h&Rs from the UK (i haven't used any of the latter).

They have definitely gotten more popular, but I can say until I broke down and decided to just make the part of the half set that I use, i was really wasting my time with a lot of junk.

The UK set cost me $750 US to get over here (which is nothing to sniff at), but they don't need much work. I built the other pairs by hand (I am getting more inept with power tools every day), and it takes me about 10 hours to make a pair, including making mildly tapered irons from bar stock O1.

You don't need a snipe bill plane, they'd be more common if they were that widely used. They're nice to have, I guess, but I'd get a few pairs of planes or make a few pairs of planes as soon as convenient so that you can open your mind up with your hands a little more than reading does. I used to hate the guesswork of trying to buy a router bit for a reasonable cost when I knew it'd be something I'd only use once or twice, and the profiles were never quite the right size or the style I was looking for (not to mention, it's a severe pain in the rear running a large moulding across a router table).

Australia has some extremely hard, stable, and abrasion resistant woods that I believe would be far superior to beech for moulding planes, and there's a toolmaker down here (HNT Gordon) who is making some truly world class stuff. I've been looking at getting some of his, but, as you said, the price is nothing to sniff at.

I've made planes from cocobolo to cherry. I would still use beech, but it has to be sawn right. For high wear parts, I'd box them if they were a problem (like the corner of a rabbet plane or on a beading profile).

I never liked working cocobolo, though (I guess I've made four planes with it, and one with bois de rose, which is a little nicer but similar). I would assume that Terry does a lot of work with machine setup.

The fruitwoods are difficult to beat in the combination of hand workability and wear resistance, etc.

Originally Posted by D.W.

......We shouldn't discount ourselves in terms of what we can figure out with some experimentation - we really own the knowledge that we put together on our own and it sticks a lot longer and has fewer boundaries.......

Hmmm, human ingenuity and originality are the stuff of progress, no doubt. However, my experience in this life has been that great things are built on solid foundations. Not being a natural genius myself, I've often found a little wisdom acquired from those who've trod the path before us doesn't hurt. True, "book learnin' " won't of itself make anything, but mixed with a bit of perseverance & practice it can be a potent ingredient....

And 'boxing' a round or hollow might be a bit tricky. I would be willing to bet that a plain Gidgee sole would outlast most other woods you can name by a factor of two or three. Cocobolo is a delightfully easy wood to work with compared with Gidgee. But you're right, it's not a wood you would want to be making planes from commercially, using only hand tools.

Cheers,

Originally Posted by D.W.

.....I used to hate the guesswork of trying to buy a router bit for a reasonable cost when I knew it'd be something I'd only use once or twice, and the profiles were never quite the right size or the style I was looking for .....

Hi DW,
This is one of the things that interests me the most. Could you expand a little on this please.

That is, how is it that you decide on the specific moulding "the right size or style" for the piece you are making.
I'm thinking it may be matching the shape with those that have come before us, or looking at the piece and deciding for yourself .... or another that I can't think of perhaps?

Stopping and thinking occasionally about design principles and proportions after many years in another craft has been a catalyst in opening up my "pallet" somewhat.

Cheers,
Peter