Thread: Making my own moulding planes

Hi Paul. Are these native to Queensland?

Originally Posted by Mountain Ash

Hi Paul. Are these native to Queensland?

MA

Yes, but also found inland in NSW and in smaller occurrences in Victoria and South Australia. It is difficult to find large sections that are defect free, but I use it almost exclusively for knife scales. You can see some more examples here. The black marks are the medullary rays, which are present in all timbers, but only visible to the naked eye in some species. Typically those species where they are visible are called "Oak." In Oz we have Silky Oak, which is the largest tree in the Grevillea family and Tulip Oak as well as the Casuarinas that include She Oak, Swamp Oak, Bull Oak (sometimes spelt Buloke) and Hairy Oak. The so called "True Oaks" are members of the Quercus family (English, American Japanese). Ironically their rays are not so prominent as the Australian trees. One timber with prominent rays that does not have the "Oak" moniker is Beech.

Some more pix of previous sets:

Copy of Copy of Sam and Daves knives 004.jpg

The block is Spotted Gum but edged with Oak

Copy of Sam and Daves knives 006.jpg

A block that was, by request, retrofitted with a butcher's steel

P1030500 (2).JPG

The middle row of short logs are Bull Oak and Hairy Oak. I don't think I have to identify which is which.

P1030506.JPG

The difficulty comes when you are just looking at the raw timber itself.

I thought I was done with making up knife sets, but just recently a relative contacted us and it would appear that four more sets are required. I have the knife blanks now so just have to make them up. They are nearly all presents for special occasions and the first set is not required until December. If I do the same as I have traditionally, I will leave it to the last moment and do a mad dash to the finish line in a state of panic.

Regards
Paul

Originally Posted by Mountain Ash

Hi Paul. Are these native to Queensland?

Yes, MA. Bull-oak (Allocasuarina leuhmanii) has a very wide distribution & gets as far as Victoria (I first encountered it when I was living in Benalla), but Hairy oak (A. inophloia), doesn't get further south than northern NSW. They are similar in texture & appearance, both have huge medullary rays which gets the "oak" part into their names. Hard to dry in sound pieces, like all of the Allocasuarinas, they have high tangential-to-radial shrinkage and love to split along those whopping great rays, but once dry, they are stable & tough.

Both polish up magnificently and make superb handles. Of the two, I've found Hairy oak to be the easier to work with, it planes & turns very nicely, whereas working old dry Bull oak is akin to working cast iron. However, that's from a fairly limited number of samples of each, & given the variability of woods, I could have it bass-ackwards.

I see HNT Gordon has used Bull oak for the body of one of his "moving fillister" planes. It has a density of about 1.2, so adding the brass bits & blade would make it a hefty little brute of plane! I've used both Bull oak & She-oak for plane bodies & handles, it's a challenge to work them into shape, but you get a real sense of achievement when you finally get there!

This old 5 1/2 has Bull-oak woodwork:Stanley 5.5.jpg

Colen Clenton favours She-oak (A. torulosa), for his marking gauges - it's an "invasive" species in Vic.! I've used a lot of it myself, partly because it's a little bit easier to work, but mostly 'cos I could get all I wanted from the old family farm. It's a much lighter colour, but polishes up & has the same nice feel as the others mentioned. I have used it in several infill planes with satisfying results (but getting it to a good fit is not easy!) : Brass & steel infill.jpg

They are all somewhat under-valued woods, imo...
Cheers,

Paul those knives look great.

While we are showing off our knife-making. I made this marking knife over the past few days.

1075 blade made from an offcut from a blank that became a Santoku kitchen knife, Queen Ebony handle and brass ferrule.

I don't think Chris Vesper has anything to worry about from me.

marking knife.jpg

Originally Posted by doug3030

I don't think Chris Vesper has anything to worry about from me.

marking knife.jpg

Doug

Nor me:

P1060250 (Medium).JPG

Made from a leaf spring and hung up on a magnetic bar in the shed (so it's handy) it is fully exposed to the elements and had picked up some surface rust. This handle is Bull Oak. Hairy Oak tends to be a little more delicate and, as Ian mentioned, a little easier to work. The next shot is cleaned up for the "photo shoot." One minute on the fibre wheel.

P1060251 (Medium).JPG

As you can see from the 9L bucket, it is a fair lump of a thing and could be used for marking out bridges. If I had a catalogue, the next size up would be classed as a dangerous weapon :

P1060252 (Medium).JPG



Good to catch up face to face in the "Friday Lunch Prattle" by the way

Regards
Paul

Originally Posted by Bushmiller

The next shot is cleaned up for the "photo shoot." One minute on the fibre wheel.

Damn - now I will have to post a pic of mine when the epoxy is dry and the handle is oiled

Originally Posted by Bushmiller

Good to catch up face to face in the "Friday Lunch Prattle" by the way

It was indeed Paul.

Assuming you don't have any worn out files or old plane blades to work with, what would you use as blanks for a pair of hollows and rounds?

I know Lie Nielsen stocks them but at $50 a pop there must be cheaper solutions.

I've never tried annealing (or hardening either) so a simple solution would be ideal.

Regards,

Adam

Originally Posted by taz01

Assuming you don't have any worn out files or old plane blades to work with, what would you use as blanks for a pair of hollows and rounds?

I know Lie Nielsen stocks them but at $50 a pop there must be cheaper solutions.

I've never tried annealing (or hardening either) so a simple solution would be ideal.

Ideally, you should use tool steel for plane blades but the heat treating process is not real easy for tool steels and requires a fair bit of experience or expensive equipment to get consistent results.

If you are starting out from scratch there are easier steels to work that will do the job, and give you heaps of experience as you go along.

High carbon steels are easier than tool steels and the easiest to use that gives good results would be 1075. I have attached a link to a good supplier who I use. As you can see the costs are not too expensive. Once you work out the dimensions of the blade you want you can order the size you need from the website or since you are in Sydney you might want to pick up.

1075 *Suitable for Beginners* - Artisan Supplies

For hollows and rounds blades you would only need to cut out the shape and could heat treat with a blowtorch as you only need to harden the "flag" on the end of the blade. You can temper it in the home oven, or do what I did and get a toaster oven for the shed. If you know someone with a forge, heat treating is even easier but the forge is not essential for h&r blades. If you look on the website I linked to there are some comprehensive instructions on how to heat treat and temper. They even sell forge kits and other blade making stuff. The guys that work there all make blades and would be able to help with the use of their products.

Hi Doug. I am intrigued by how far you are away from Melbourne but if you caught up with Paul it must be a long way

Hi Taz. For the last couple I have made I used an old plane blade that was sharpened almost up to the slot. This does mean that the tang is shorter than the wedge but you have a blade without all the fuss. Just go slow with the angle grinder and keep things cool.

Hi Paul and Ian. I've only worked with Silky Oak. And found it sort of spongy. A lot of it went into the firewood pile but I turned some into candlesticks and bowls. I'm intrigued by how hard some of it's relatives can be. We also are lucky to have such a beautiful range of native timbers in this country.

Originally Posted by Mountain Ash

Hi Paul and Ian. I've only worked with Silky Oak. And found it sort of spongy. A lot of it went into the firewood pile but I turned some into candlesticks and bowls. I'm intrigued by how hard some of it's relatives can be. We also are lucky to have such a beautiful range of native timbers in this country.

MA

Silky Oak is easy to work, but a trifle soft for some purposes. It was on the limit for this saw: Silky Oak and Casuarina Oaks are different families so that accounts for the very different densities and characteristics.

Replica Kenyon Large back closed.jpgReplica Kenyon medium back closed detail.jpg

I also remembered that a while back I started this thread on these very timbers (not that it aids identification that much!):

Casuarina identification. Hairy Oak/Bull Oak

Regards
Paul

Originally Posted by Mountain Ash

Hi Doug. I am intrigued by how far you are away from Melbourne but if you caught up with Paul it must be a long way

MA, I'm close enough to Melbourne to have to wear a mask when I leave the house.

The catch-up with Paul was here: Friday lunch prattle

Neither of us travelled. Next one is on Friday 31 July and everyone is welcome, details in the link.

Hi Doug. Of course!!! I'm an idiot, just when you said face to face....anyway. I like to think I'm far enough away but we've been part of greater Melbourne for a long time .

Hi Paul. Followed the link. Love it. The hairy oak reminds me of ivy stems. We get some serious infestations locally. An old boss of mine had "trunks" so thick he chopped them up for firewood.

Originally Posted by Mountain Ash

...... I've only worked with Silky Oak. And found it sort of spongy....
..... I'm intrigued by how hard some of it's relatives can be...

MA, Bull,Hairy, & She-oak are members of an almost exclusively Australian family, the Casuarinaceae, they are not 'relatives' of Silky oak which is in the Proteaceae, any more than they are relatives of the northern hemisphere oaks (Fagaceae). There are a couple of 'hard' members of the Silky oak family, like Beefwood, but even that is pretty soft compared with Bulloak. Common names lead to all sorts of confusion! "Rosewood" is another name rather carelessly applied to numerous "unrelated" woods in several different families.

But I certainly agree that we are indeed spoiled for choice when it comes to selecting woods for a wide range of purposes. Getting hold of most of them is the problem, because only a handful are available commercially on a regular basis. This bloke has Bulloak, Ringed Gidgee and Bugeroo all dry & ready to go. He concentrates on sizes for knife makers, but if you want a bigger piece of a particular size, he will usually find it for you pretty promptly (no affiliation, just a satisfied customer ).

Chers,