Thread: Paring Chisel Batch Order

Originally Posted by johnc

I have a couple of Titan paring chisels with shortish handles, pretty much what Helmut said, the short handles seem to work quite well.

johnc
do you have a piccy of said chisels?

Scribbley gum posted this sometime back, but the paring chisel is shown bottom right of the single chisels.

I can not resist this thread. Some years ago I worked as a pattern maker / store man at the RMIT pattern making foundry school. My main job was to keep control of the hand tools in the store and make sure that the apprentices returned all said tools. One of the main brands of paring chisel was Sorby,.These had a long blade which is why I was attracted to this thread but the handel was about 5 1/2 inches, long 1 1/4 diameter in the center and tapered toward each end. they fitted in the hand beautifully. I had to sharpen all the hand tools and it was a great job. Some of the older chisels had Working Mans College which is what the RMIT started out life as. Now they aspire to be a university Hope this is of interest 4-6-4.

Yeah this is interesting. Always good to hear a story or two.

Originally Posted by 4-6-4

the handel was about 5 1/2 inches, long 1 1/4 diameter in the center and tapered toward each end. they fitted in the hand beautifull.

I have had a look at a selection of old pairing chisels and I concur that the 5 1/2" mark is a good handle for a long bladed chisel. The Longer handles would possible work on the shorter bladed chisels.

Just imagine if you had a 250 mm blade and a 250 mm handle you would be half a meter away from your work, you arms would be fully extended. I have found that one hand rest's just behind the cutting edge and the other hand towards the front of the handle. With the power or motion coming from the hips and core muscles. This gives you a greater level of control, then pushing with your hand would afford.

The longer handles work's with the Japanese chisels, since they tent to have a short blade say 75 mm another 75 mm for the socket/ferrule, then with a 200 mm handle you reach a total length of 350 mm.

After some procrastinating on this bulk order on my part, as I have been very busy with the workshop.

The price of steel has remained stable over the last year.

I just got of the phone with Bohler and the price for a sheet of M2 at 1500 x 3.5 x 800 mm is $1088, plus $40 to have it moved to the waterjet cutters brings per sheet price to $1128. Which is what had initially projected.

Quote from John at Rippon for Grinding

I got of the phone with John at Rippon. He says the chisels are a bit of an odd job, and the challenge will be to get the thinner chisel to stick to the magnet as they do the grinding job. He will need to experiment a little with the process for grinding the bevels. John is happy to grind the chisels after the heat treating.

The price quoted for chisels is $25 for the top and bottom flat, the two edge bevels, and NO primary bevel. The price quoted for chisels with the top and bottoms ground flat, the two edge bevels, and the primary bevels ground is $30 per chisel.

The cost is $5 more then what was estimated per chisel.

Waiting for a Quote from Ivan for Grinding

I am waiting for an email, from Ivan who will give us another quote for the grinding.

Turning Handle Quote

The best price for turning the handles was $4, which is $2 cheaper then what was projected. The catch is that the hole for the tang is not included in that price, we will need to drill them ourselves. No turning company is willing to drill those holes for us.

Timber For Handles

Ray153, has spoken with Timber supplier, and he can get us slabs of figured Tasmanian Myrtle, and Tasmanian Blackwood at a price lower at what I had projected. The only thing about the slab, is that we will need to cut it up into 45 x 45 x 180 mm billets. So we need to cut up the slab ourself. I need to get an exact price, however it should be bellow the projected at the start.

I am happy with all of the things going on re the chisels - all is cool.

The hole for the tang - a little thort has been ratttling around in my head (probably looking for another - lonely little b****r) - somewhere I saw in a magazine a doweling system which used stepped dowels in various american timbers - so would be an americam mag probably. - but they had stepped drills for the dowels - not an evenly tapered hole but the steps could even be an advantage - anyone seen this and can put up a pointer.

Neil

Hi Niel

You are thinking of the "Miller Dowel" ssytem

see http://millerdowel.com/

I had a look at the miller dowel, it is a good idea, however it would be to big. The hole would need to be 3 mm x 8 mm wide at the top and then stepping down to 3 x 3 mm at the bottom.

I am not sure what the correct way of doing it is but when I have turned round items and then tried drilling the end I had no end of problems with the pieces spinning in the vice. It turned out allot better to drill the hole before turning it round.

Dear Thumsuker, I read your latest post about the chisels all seems to be very good. Your mention about holding a chisel brought to mind a method which I learned at Pattern Making school. I am right handed. This method is for vertical work. You hold the chisel in the palm of the hand upside down, with the handle protruding out of the top of the hand and the thumb along the axis of the chisel and the cutting edge towards you. After you close your hand. The top of the chisel is then placed against the left side of the chest you can then see the cuting ege of the chisel when you look over the hand. The left thumb is used to guide the chisel. One must take care at this point that one does not pare part of ones thumb when guiding the chisel. The weight of the chest is then used to assist the cutting action of the chisel.
Would it be possible to amend my order to get a set of blanks not hardened or tempered I would like to try and make a set of gouges for patternmaking.
Yours 4-6-4

Originally Posted by 4-6-4

Would it be possible to amend my order to get a set of blanks not hardened or tempered I would like to try and make a set of gouges for patternmaking.
Yours 4-6-4

The problem is how would you heat treat it? M2 cannot b heat treated at home, you need a computerized controlled environment.

You might be better of buying O1 tools steel. You an get in an almost any size, and you can heat treat at home.

Enco in the USA is a good place to buy.

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRAR?PMSECT=793

Hi Helmut,

There is a quite good article here about mounting chisel handles here:
http://www.norsewoodsmith.com/node/48

He turns the handles, but leaves a nub of wood on the end so this can be gripped in a vice for boring later on.

"...I start by marking out the center of the handle with an awl.

I just eyeball it - as long as it's close it's good enough. Then, I measure the tang of the tool I want to insert. This one is a patternmaker's rasp, and the tang tapers from 1/8" at the tip to 3/8" at a point 2" down, and is about 1/8" thick for that entire length (you'll see the tang in a later photo, so I won't overtax the bandwidth with it here).
Because of the long length of this tang, I'm going to make a stepped hole to receive it. The first hole will be with a 1/8" bit, set for the full 2" depth (that's as far as the bit I had would go anyway). Remember how I said not to cut the other end of the handle off yet? Here's why - I use it as a base to hold the handle straight for the drill press:

After the 1/8" hole is drilled, I take a slightly larger bit - 3/16" - and drill out the hole to that size but only 1-1/2" deep this time. Next, I take a 1/4" drill bit and widen the hole, this time to only 1" deep.
After that - the bits actually get too long to use in my drill press (which is just a 10" benchtop model) and the handle won't fit underneath them. That's OK, though, because I don't need the drill press anymore, nor do I need a larger bit. As the tang is flat - 1/8" for it's entire length - a bigger hole would only mean more room for the tang to move in it's slot. So instead of going with a bigger hole, I take a hand drill and widen the slot using the 1/4" bit by rocking it from side to side, test fitting with the actual tool until I get a nice fit:..."

He heats the tang with a gas blowtorch for a tight fit - http://www.norsewoodsmith.com/node/49

Originally Posted by thumbsucker

Timber For Handles

Ray153, has spoken with Timber supplier, and he can get us slabs of figured Tasmanian Myrtle, and Tasmanian Blackwood at a price lower at what I had projected. The only thing about the slab, is that we will need to cut it up into 45 x 45 x 180 mm billets. So we need to cut up the slab ourself. I need to get an exact price, however it should be bellow the projected at the start.

I will speak to Len on Friday and get a definate price. However, I originally asked about stock to give 40 x 40 x 180, not 45 x 45.
which size are you after TS?

And am I looking at sufficient stock for 300 blanks in all TM or all BW or a mix of both to total 300 blanks?

Ray

W L Fuller in the USA manufactures long (and extra long) taper point drill bits. Maybe these would help in drilling holes for the tangs?

see http://www.wlfuller.com/html/taper_point_drills.html

This one will drill a 94mm (approx) deep hole

Drill Dia ........ Flute Length .........Overall Length .... Stock Number
1/4" ............. 3-3/4" ................... 6-1/8" ................. 20200250