Thread: Picked up these vintage chisels

I have several Jernbolaget chisels which I find to be every bit as good as my Bergs. They will not disappoint.
I once tried to put together a set, but found it too difficult to locate appropriate sizes. They are less common than Bergs in my experience.
The ones that I have, I have ground into skew chisels, and they serve nicely.
Don't be too surprised if the chisel widths aren't exactly what we expect in imperial and current metric.
Most were hand made and would have been sold with the expectation that they were within tolerances of manufacture - ie not exact every time for every chisel.
Tom

Originally Posted by yoboseyo

I bought these chisels off a local woodworker. The set contains 5 bevel edge bench chisels and 3 mortice chisels. I was wondering if anyone could tell me anything more about them. I plan on using them at least the mortice chisels as I don't have any, and the bench chisels may be better than the ones I have.



Four of them are Jernbolaget Eskilstuna socket chisels in 1-1/4", 1", 3/4" and 1/2". Search tells me that they were around earlier than EA Berg? Can I expect them to be about the same? At least anything from Eskilstuna is decent, right?

Two Titan mortice chisels - 10mm and 6.6mm Titan I'm pretty familiar with.

One 1/2" tang chisel. All the marking that are present are on one side of the blade (handle worn to the point of illegibility). It says (to the best of what I can gather - it's very faded) JNJL GARANTIE with a crown logo

One 1/4" mortice chisel. Charles Taylor's (screw logo on the other side). Search tells me they are a Sheffield tool maker, which has a decent reputation but I haven't heard of many of the brands from there

All the chisels have weird exact measurements - some neither metric nor imperial

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They should be decent - the profile suggests drop forged out of rod (like current carving tools like pfeil, etc) and if the starting stock is good and the heat treatment is good, that should make a good chisel.

I've had a few different eskilstuna makes and they are all relatively similar seeming, it's just a matter of how hard they're tempered.

The lack of perfect measurements probably has to do with the fact that there is some hand work on them finishing them, or that at the time, jigging wasn't the same kind of repetitive automated process we're used to. Most users wouldn't worry about exact sizes, they just want "about". I think "slaving" is an artifact of trying to get hand tools to match power tool work.

You have done pretty well getting those. I have some bergs and titans that are really good. I have never come across anything bad from Sheffield either. Something nice about tools that still work perfectly well having outlasted generations of people that used them.
Regards
John

Originally Posted by orraloon

You have done pretty well getting those. I have some bergs and titans that are really good. I have never come across anything bad from Sheffield either. Something nice about tools that still work perfectly well having outlasted generations of people that used them.
Regards
John

I agree with John - it does the heart good to see beautiful tools traverse generations.
My Jernbolagets were in much poorer shape than yours, and I ground them to skew profile as well as tapered the blades on three of them to suit.
I have been promising myself a new set of handles for years, but never got around to it

Tom

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thanks for the insights, all!

Definitely happy to give the tools a new lease on life by putting them to good use.

I have discovered that Titan never had a mortice chisel in their range. Which means that they are just firmer chisels. They are fairly thick, though, as the 10mm one goes from 8mm at the neck tapering to 5.5mm at the bevel.

The blade is labelled "Titan guaranteed". Can anyone tell me about their provenance?

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And a pic of the Jernboaget
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- - - Updated - - -

Also, can anyone comment on how vintage carbon steels perform compare to steels in modern chisels like CRV, A2, O2, etc?

Originally Posted by Scribbly Gum

I agree with John - it does the heart good to see beautiful tools traverse generations.
My Jernbolagets were in much poorer shape than yours, and I ground them to skew profile as well as tapered the blades on three of them to suit.
I have been promising myself a new set of handles for years, but never got around to it

Tom

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I skewed a couple of small ones. A good use of sizes you are doubled up on. I also made a very short chisel into a marking knife by just skewing a bit more and making a slimmer handle. Has a nice weight so my other marking knives are redundant.
Regards
John

I overlooked the JNJL GARANTIE chisel
I would like to suggest that it is a JNIJ chisel made in Holland (the Netherlands)
It may very well be the same manufacturer as Nooitgedagt chisels.
These were supposedly made with Swedish steel as well
I'm sure it will serve well
Tom

Originally Posted by Scribbly Gum

I overlooked the JNJL GARANTIE chisel
I would like to suggest that it is a JNIJ chisel made in Holland (the Netherlands)
It may very well be the same manufacturer as Nooitgedagt chisels.
These were supposedly made with Swedish steel as well...

That's what I was thinking. Jan Nooitgedagt was a Dutch ice skate maker who branched into making chisels and wooden planes - using Swedish steel (the same steel as Jernbolaget and Bergs I suppose). The crown was a mark he used, and usually "JNR" if my memory serves me correctly.

Originally Posted by yoboseyo

...Also, can anyone comment on how vintage carbon steels perform compare to steels in modern chisels like CRV, A2, O2, etc?

I believe vintage carbon steels are similar to O2 steel. Not as robust as A2 & CRV but easier to hone and take a keener edge (just not for long).

Cheers, Vann.

I have a set of the Dutch chisels as well confidently a pair of old wooden ice states with leather strapping from the same maker.
I am happy with them and they are easy to sharpen.

Originally Posted by yoboseyo

....I have discovered that Titan never had a mortice chisel in their range. Which means that they are just firmer chisels. They are fairly thick, though, as the 10mm one goes from 8mm at the neck tapering to 5.5mm at the bevel....

Yairs, I was going to point this out but you discovered it for yourself. Titan made two classes of plain chisels, one with a heavier blade & fitted with a Tasmanian blue-gum handle with a top hoop (101). The lighter versions (131) had a differently shaped handle of a softer wood (usually myrtle), with no top hoop. So if I'm interpreting the first pic of your 'collection' correctly, and those are the two Titans on the left, they're the 'heavy' registered firmers (101s). These make quite good mortising chisels, & in fact they saw very extensive use in that role back in my dad's day, when hardwood studs were mortised into the top & bottom plates. Of course they were working with wood at a pretty high moisture content, which made it very much easier to cut, but it's still a pretty severe test for any chisel to do that sort of work 8 hours a day.

My collection of Titans are the 201 type with essentially the same blade as the 101s but socketed instead of tanged. (I just have a thing about socketed chisels),
Titan firmers.jpg

I put my 'set' together over a number of years & they are in various states of wear as you can see. All but one or two came with either very badly damaged or crude replacement handles so I gave them all matching (Brigalow) handles. There is some slight variation in the temper, as judged by the way they sharpen & behave in use, but they are all very acceptable tools. They are certainly "softer" than A2 (I have a set of LNs, so can make direct comparisons!), however, hardness of itself isn't everything. To me, the Titans hit a sweet spot, easy to sharpen but still hold their edge very well in any sensible wood. If I put too shallow a bevel on a couple the edge may curl a little when whaled into Ironbark or Bull-oak, but at least they don't chip the way the A2 LNs will under the same rough treatment!

I think when you first start hand-mortising, the dedicated mortise chisels with their deeper blades help in keeping the chisel straight as you chop along the mortise, it has less tendency to twist & make rough sides. But after a while that becomes less of an issue & you learn to use all sorts of cues to help keep the chisel straight & perpendicular & not chew up the sides as you work. I have a couple of LN mortise chisels but frequently prefer to use the Titans because the carbon steel can take a more shallow bevel that penetrates harder woods more easily than the steeper-bevelled LNs.

Most old chisels of the major (& many 'minor') brands are excellent users, and as Tom says, there's something very satisfying about giving a good old tool a second life - they seem to know when they've found a good home & respond very well to a bit of TLC...

Cheers,

Hi Ian. Funny you should talk about the "curl" of chisels and "sweet spot". Years ago I had a couple of blue handled Marples chisels (1/2" and 1") as my nail bag users, when everyone else had the black and yellow acrylic handled Stanleys. Mine would hold and edge better and for longer until I hit a nail. Mine would chip whereas the Stanleys would almost bend around the nails. It's interesting that those Marples are now held in high regard, my old boss who swore by them was onto something.

MA, I think my Titans would chip if I hit a nail! What I meant by "curling" was that the very edge will burr a bit if banged hard into really hard wood rather than form fine chips the way my A2 chisels will. I'd actually rate them about as hard as a (good) blue-chip (I had some quite nice ones early-on). But I've also had a couple of lemon blue-chips in my time. One I've kept for similar uses as your 'nail-bag' chisels; it comes out whenever there's any danger of metal contact. I don't mind in the least having to do a heavy re-grind on it, it's soft & easy-going on the grinder. And when it's used-up I'm sure I'll find another dud chisel to replace it easily enough....

Originally Posted by Scribbly Gum

I overlooked the JNJL GARANTIE chisel
I would like to suggest that it is a JNIJ chisel made in Holland (the Netherlands)

By coincidence, I actually have a Nooitgedagt chisel. "J Nooitgedagt and sons Tools, No. 3060, IJLST" - the label says

I find the steel quite soft. At least, I had to sharpen quite frequently.

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Originally Posted by yoboseyo

..... The blade is labelled "Titan guaranteed". Can anyone tell me about their provenance?
20211002_200138.jpg .....

Forgot to answer that question: Over the years Titan used several different stamps. The time frames for most are only approximate, but according to Dick, the "Titan gauranteed" stamp was the last one used and ran from 1958 until Stanley took over & dropped the "Titan" name. So the best you can pinpoint your chisel's date of manufacture would be somewhere between 1958 & mid-to-late 1960s...
Cheers,