Thread: Which First Plane?

LOL.

Just bear in mind that V. make 2 smoothers and only one of them is blade-compatible with the LAJ.

I'm sure Mr B will have the right name for it ;-}

Originally Posted by rsser

Just bear in mind that V. make 2 smoothers and only one of them is blade-compatible with the LAJ.

The Bevel Up Smoother is the one with the same irons (blades) as the LAJ, but I think coleend is looking at the bevel-down Veritas 4½ smoother.

Personally, I believe the Veritas LAJ is the best (most versatile) plane available today, but I'd stay away from the Veritas bevel-down planes (sorry to be negative).

Cheers, Vann.

When I was looking at a "first plane" to complement my newly purchased veritas block plane I did my research and a lot of people recommended the Veritas LAJ as a versatile first plane.
So I ordered the LAJ from LV with the additional irons a few months ago and have never looked back.
Don't forget to learn how to sharpen - I don't have one of the Veritas honing guides, but I use a less expensive guide with this shop made jig http://www.lie-nielsen.com/pdf/AngleSettingJig.pdf

I'd have to agree with Vann - Veritas preferred for bevel up planes, but for conventional bevel down stuff I'd go LN.

I'd be very interested to know the volume breakdown for Veritas between bevel up and bevel down.......

So it's getting late and the brain box is getting tired.

I'm wondering how Vann got this out of the thread so far:

coleend is looking at the bevel-down Veritas 4½ smoother

Originally Posted by colleend

...I think I will be getting the 4 1/2 smoother and the la jack as a start.

rsser, this was from post #30 (bottom of page 2)

Originally Posted by Mr Brush

...I'd be very interested to know the volume breakdown for Veritas between bevel up and bevel down....... .

This has me intriged too. I'm sure it's commercially sensative information, but I'd love to see a list of best-to-worst selling planes in the Veritas range.

Cheers, Vann.

Veritas were right up there with radical design when they started on the bevel up path, and I suspect that in this class of plane they outsell LN many times over. I always got the impression that LN only belatedly bought out bevel up planes to play catch up with Veritas.

However, for conventional bevel down planes, the Veritas "all in one frog/handle" arrangement may be just a bit too radical for some users. The more traditional, not to say heirloom , design of LN planes seems to be much more widely accepted.

To be honest, with all the new and amazing designs Veritas have been coming out with recently in specialty planes, block planes, etc., their conventional planes feel more like an old forgotten relative.

I've been half expecting a complete redesign of their bevel down planes for a while now.....(Rob Lee - this is where you burst on the scene in a puff of smoke and announce your new plane range.....)

Originally Posted by Mr Brush

Veritas were right up there with radical design when they started on the bevel up path, and I suspect that in this class of plane they outsell LN many times over. I always got the impression that LN only belatedly bought out bevel up planes to play catch up with Veritas.

However, for conventional bevel down planes, the Veritas "all in one frog/handle" arrangement may be just a bit too radical for some users. The more traditional, not to say heirloom , design of LN planes seems to be much more widely accepted.

To be honest, with all the new and amazing designs Veritas have been coming out with recently in specialty planes, block planes, etc., their conventional planes feel more like an old forgotten relative.

I've been half expecting a complete redesign of their bevel down planes for a while now.....(Rob Lee - this is where you burst on the scene in a puff of smoke and announce your new plane range.....)

Yes the bevel down range from LV doesn't get much press does it. And yet it is such a good design. It is the only plane that I know of, where advancing the frog to close the mouth does not separate the frog from the base, taking away the last bit of bedding for the blade. Traditional Stanley designs have that problem when the frog is advanced to set the blade very fine - the bottom of the blade hangs off the end of the frog and is unsupported once it moves in front of the plane base at the back of the mouth.
Bedrock designs have this too, as well as pushing the blade deeper when the frog is advanced because of their. sloped bed
The Veritas has the frog as an integral part of the base and it's blade's bed never changes as the frog moves forward and back. Further, this does not alter the blade's depth because the frog runs parallel with the base.
You may be right - it might be too different for the bulk of plane users. Personally I like the idea.
Cheers
SG

I could certainly go with the bevel up smoother as the second to take advantage of shared blades which sounds like a good idea.

Originally Posted by Mr Brush

Veritas were right up there with radical design when they started on the bevel up path, and I suspect that in this class of plane they outsell LN many times over. I always got the impression that LN only belatedly bought out bevel up planes to play catch up with Veritas.

Hi John
The Lie Nielsen BU planes are "improved copies" of original Stanley designs -- #164 (LA smoother) and #62 (LA Jack) -- like their other Stanley style planes.

Both LN BU planes were on the market well before the Veritas BU planes were introduced. If I remember correctly, I bought my LN BU jack 10-11 years ago, around the time my son was born.
In the past there has been much debate about the relative merit of the LN and Veritas BU plane designs and their performance.
From what I recall (Derek's "in the wood shop" is always a good resource) and what I have experienced, the two LA jacks (Veritas and LN) are on a par with each other and there is not much difference between the Veritas and LN LA smoothers.
However, the Veritas BU Smoother is a gem -- the only downside (and for me it isn't because I have an alternative) is you can't use the BU smoother on a shooting board.


I think of the BU plane design as "formerly unloved" rather than "radical".
Stanley introduced the design in the 1905 and discontinued it around 1942 (thanks to Patrick's "Blood and Gore")
i say "unloved" becauser if you free hand sharpen it is very difficult to maintain a consistent repeatable bevel angle and you rapidly loose the advantage of a controlled cutting angle -- bevel down it doesn't much matter if the bevel is 30 or 35 degrees
I consider Rob's genius was to introduce his BU design AFTER he had conditioned many WW to use his Mk1 Sharpening guide with the optional angle setter which allowed for consistent, repeatable bevel angles



BTW, the rarest of the LN BU beasts is the BU#7 with a moveable toe. I understand that Thomas only ever made about 6 of them.

I've been half expecting a complete redesign of their bevel down planes for a while now.....(Rob Lee - this is where you burst on the scene in a puff of smoke and announce your new plane range.....)

why meddle with near perfection?

Stanley 12-136 Bailey No.4 Smoothing Bench Plane


I saw this on Amazon.com today. $123 (US)

Looks like it would be perfect, mainly due to its similarity to my dads old Stanley that my daughter has used.


What a small world getting a personal reply from Walnut, Iowa, just up the road from me.

Thanks for all of the advice folks, I put the order in today to lee valley.

Good of you to get back to us on this.