Thread: Plane Blades and Chisels ( A progress report )

Originally Posted by Ray153

Josh,
Given that I sent you a message back on the 2nd June, and you having been online at least twice since then, on the 3rd and again very early this morning, I am disappointed that there has been no reply to my query.

I am simply asking for an update and some idea of just how much work is left to do in order to finish the grinding on the paring chisels.

I am annoyed that the flow of information is very limited overall and is having to be continually dragged out of anyone who has been assisting get this endeavour completed.

I am past caring if others think I am being unreasonable in always wanting information. This has gone on long enough. I do not want to drop out of this and I understand that this is being done in the spare time of those concerned. Not knowing what is happening is getting extremely frustrating.

Ray

Hi Ray,

Don't stress it.. . Josh has been busy for a few weeks, the last few days he has been working on jigs and fixtures to grind the bevels.

Regards
Ray

Hello all,
I fitted the handles to my chisels on the weekend & gave them a brief try out. Their appearance is outstanding and from the few minutes of use the weight & feel is right for me.
Many thanks & full marks to those whose skills contributed to the manufacture of these tools.
I did take a couple of photos but did not bring the camera back with me, Will post a photo next weekend when home again.
So, whats the word on the skew and paring chisels?

Originally Posted by gnu52

Hello all,
I fitted the handles to my chisels on the weekend & gave them a brief try out. Their appearance is outstanding and from the few minutes of use the weight & feel is right for me.
Many thanks & full marks to those whose skills contributed to the manufacture of these tools.
I did take a couple of photos but did not bring the camera back with me, Will post a photo next weekend when home again.
So, whats the word on the skew and paring chisels?

Very pleased to hear that, I'm keen to see some pictures!... On the paring chisels.. Josh is still setting up jigs to do the bevels, and we have to set up a new machine to help the process...

I'm interested in hearing how you went about the fitting of the handles, maybe some others here can post some pictures and some of their experiences as well..

Regards
Ray

Hello,
Thumbsucker asked that I post pictutes of the assembled chisels.
I did not photograph the assembly process but can describe it for anyone interested.
It was simple in the extreme. I selected 3 long shank drill bits , the smallest being 2 mm for a pilot hole. I measured the tang & socket to get the depth of hole, added 2 mm for clearance, & marked the drill bit with a felt pen. I held the chisel handle in one hand & started the hole with the cordless steadied on the bench, drilling about 19mm. I then loosened my hold on the handle allowing the drill to spin the handle. You can immediately feel if the handle is running straight or wobbling & correct it. I then drilled the pilot to the marked depth checking constantly that it ran true. The hole was then stepped using 2 bits to suit the tang dimensions. I used the smaller of this pair to drill through the socket & then used the hole to file out the slot for the tang using a small square file. I used a pen to mark up the socket to help keeo track of which way to file, & to reference the parts to keep them aligned. The first chisel ended with a clearance between the top of the socket & the handle which I filled with an o ring. This filled the clearance & gave a black accent line which I like. It took about an hour to fit the first handle & not much more to fit the next 7.

P1020065.jpgP1020067.jpg

Originally Posted by RayG

On the paring chisels.. Josh is still setting up jigs to do the bevels, and we have to set up a new machine to help the process...

Dare I ask what progress has been made in getting the parer chisels finished?

Originally Posted by Ray153

Dare I ask what progress has been made in getting the parer chisels finished?

I have no part in producing or purchase of any of this group buy. I was up at Ray's place last week and Josh was busy machining a metal jig which was quite impressive in itself. He explained to me what it was going to be and how it was going to be used and it was for setting up the chisels to grind the side bevels. So I can attest as an uninvolved party that there is progress being made and I do think the boys underestimated the work involved to set up and produce these. There were also boxes of handles and ferrules on the tables. So I am jealous of you guys who have orders because the product is looking good. I can't comment on how much is left to do or how much longer anyone will wait but I do think it will be worth it and forgotten when you have these beautiful tools to use.

Thank you gnu52, the photos are wonderful and I hope that you are happy and that you, and future generations get a lifetime of work and pleasure from these tools. RayG, Josh, & have done an excellent job. I hope these photos will inspire others to complete, photograph and enjoy their sets. If you have any feedback on how they perform feel, balance & sharpen I am sure we would all be most interested. Josh and I both regret missing out on our own sets, however Josh has assured me that once all other orders are meet then he will go about making sets for us sometime in the distant future.

Originally Posted by gnu52

Hello,
Thumbsucker asked that I post pictures of the assembled chisels.
I did not photograph the assembly process but can describe it for anyone interested.
It was simple in the extreme. I selected 3 long shank drill bits , the smallest being 2 mm for a pilot hole. I measured the tang & socket to get the depth of hole, added 2 mm for clearance, & marked the drill bit with a felt pen. I held the chisel handle in one hand & started the hole with the cordless steadied on the bench, drilling about 19mm. I then loosened my hold on the handle allowing the drill to spin the handle. You can immediately feel if the handle is running straight or wobbling & correct it. I then drilled the pilot to the marked depth checking constantly that it ran true. The hole was then stepped using 2 bits to suit the tang dimensions. I used the smaller of this pair to drill through the socket & then used the hole to file out the slot for the tang using a small square file. I used a pen to mark up the socket to help keep track of which way to file, & to reference the parts to keep them aligned. The first chisel ended with a clearance between the top of the socket & the handle which I filled with an o ring. This filled the clearance & gave a black accent line which I like. It took about an hour to fit the first handle & not much more to fit the next 7.

P1020065.jpgP1020067.jpg

Originally Posted by Ray153

Dare I ask what progress has been made in getting the parer chisels finished?

Apparently not.

A week and nothing from anyone with responsibility for this project. Absolutely woeful.

The abdication of responsibility for this venture is becoming very concerning.

Whilst I appreciate that it was well intentioned, an update from a person in no way connected with this project is not good enough and just makes the lack of communication and transparency all the worse.

It's like asking the mechanic how the service on your car is going and the guy who bought a set of tyres from him a week ago gives you the answer. I seriously doubt that anyone would accept that treatment as the customer in that scenario. I fail to see why the circumstances are different just because its an internet forum.

As someone with a financial commitment to this, I believe that it is reasonable to get an update on progress when requested, given how long its been going on for. Since the 23rd October, 2010 in fact.

We shouldn't be having to ask all the time for information. Updates on a regular basis, at least fortnightly, should be the absolute minimum in my view.

I am not having a dig at you Josh, although you are the one best placed to provide that information and could do so if so minded.

Responsibility for this lies with Helmut and this post is directed to him primarily. He is the one who started this and it is up to him to keep this going along at a reasonable pace and let people know what is going on. Taking a "they'll be right and it will get finished eventually" approach is not good enough.

Stop ignoring the customer and start working harder towards getting this finished.

Getting more and more &@&$(/ed off now.

Ray153

Originally Posted by Ray153

Apparently not.

A week and nothing from anyone with responsibility for this project. Absolutely woeful.

The abdication of responsibility for this venture is becoming very concerning.

Whilst I appreciate that it was well intentioned, an update from a person in no way connected with this project is not good enough and just makes the lack of communication and transparency all the worse.

It's like asking the mechanic how the service on your car is going and the guy who bought a set of tyres from him a week ago gives you the answer. I seriously doubt that anyone would accept that treatment as the customer in that scenario. I fail to see why the circumstances are different just because its an internet forum.

As someone with a financial commitment to this, I believe that it is reasonable to get an update on progress when requested, given how long its been going on for. Since the 23rd October, 2010 in fact.

We shouldn't be having to ask all the time for information. Updates on a regular basis, at least fortnightly, should be the absolute minimum in my view.

I am not having a dig at you Josh, although you are the one best placed to provide that information and could do so if so minded.

Responsibility for this lies with Helmut and this post is directed to him primarily. He is the one who started this and it is up to him to keep this going along at a reasonable pace and let people know what is going on. Taking a "they'll be right and it will get finished eventually" approach is not good enough.

Stop ignoring the customer and start working harder towards getting this finished.

Getting more and more &@&$(/ed off now.

Ray153

Hi Ray153,

I'm at a loss to know exactly what you want to know? I thought Dale answered pretty well and didn't require any elaboration. (Thanks Dale.)

Regards
Ray

Originally Posted by RayG

Hi Ray153,

I'm at a loss to know exactly what you want to know? I thought Dale answered pretty well and didn't require any elaboration. (Thanks Dale.)

Regards
Ray

Hi Ray.

While I appreciated that Dale provided a response, it was information that was a week old at the time he posted it and no matter how well intentioned he may be, he is not in a position to see if any progress had been made since the last time information had been provided. For all he knows, the bit of work he saw could have been in that state for weeks. We have no way of telling either. Given that we rely on the dissemination of information online, even regular photos of what is going on would assist.

Saying that a jig is being made to help grind the blanks doesn't tell anyone much, certainly nothing new. That has been the case for some time now. Repeating that does nothing to reassure those of us who are not able to call in to see Josh to collect other jobs and get a face to face briefing.

But the fact that a person, who himself makes clear, is not involved in this project, is the one who provides an update? That is what has lead to my post. My concern is that this project is just drifting along with no real effort to manage it other than adopting a position of "she'll be right in the end". October will see the 3rd birthday of this project. Is there likely to be a 4th birthday?

I, and others have made the point before that communication is the key here. Relying on others who are not involved to provide an update on your behalf is not what I see as acceptable. There has not been an update in any great detail for months from Helmut as the originator of this project, and yes, we all entered into this willingly and in the knowledge that it would take time. Everyone taking part in this has a stake in it, whether it be simply financial or in the case of you and Josh, both time and money.

As "customers", my argument is that a great deal more needs to be done to keep us informed on progress and getting this finished. A detailed update outlining what as been done so far and what is still to be done would be a good start. And not from an uninvolved customer of the person who is doing the work on your behalf.

Funny to think that people comment on how long it takes to get Harold & Saxon chisels......and this project is approaching 3 years old ?? You could have had H&S chisels a couple of times over I suspect.

Having been involved in an earlier "group buy" for chisels on here many years ago, I learned my lesson and gave this latest one a wide berth.

Not to take anything away from the numerous people who have put a great deal of their time and effort into sorting out this debacle - definitely above and beyond the call of duty. The real problem lies elsewhere.

Thanks Ray,
I can see it must be frustrating for you, no excuses from either Josh or myself, we both have multiple projects on-going and try to prioritize things as best we can. Josh's last PM to you was only a week or so back so the estimates of time required haven't changed that much.

So far we have completed, a wide array turning chisels, several hundred plane blades of different sizes, more firmer chisels than I care to count, and the last stage, the paring chisels are well on the way to completion.

If you want to pull out of the group purchase, I'd understand, and what's more I'd happily pay you to take your chisels. Seeing the way they are coming out makes me wish I'd got in when I had the chance.

As far as Helmut goes, none of the delay is his fault, it's just how long it takes us to get things done.. we just work slowly.

Thanks Mr Brush, I'm in full agreement, I'm not keen to ever get involved in such complex group purchases in the future.

Regards
Ray

Originally Posted by RayG

Thanks Ray,
I can see it must be frustrating for you, no excuses from either Josh or myself, we both have multiple projects on-going and try to prioritize things as best we can. Josh's last PM to you was only a week or so back so the estimates of time required haven't changed that much.

So far we have completed, a wide array turning chisels, several hundred plane blades of different sizes, more firmer chisels than I care to count, and the last stage, the paring chisels are well on the way to completion.

If you want to pull out of the group purchase, I'd understand, and what's more I'd happily pay you to take your chisels. Seeing the way they are coming out makes me wish I'd got in when I had the chance.

As far as Helmut goes, none of the delay is his fault, it's just how long it takes us to get things done.. we just work slowly.

Thanks Mr Brush, I'm in full agreement, I'm not keen to ever get involved in such complex group purchases in the future.

Regards
Ray

Thank you Ray for the reply.

While there are parts of your post I differ on, I have no doubt that you and Josh are doing a top notch job, every description I have seen of other work the two of you have done in the past attests to that and the photos as put up of the firmers certainly show that.

I appreciate that you are prepared to buy me out of the project, but I would regret opting out much more than I regret having gotten involved. So I will remain in this to the bitter end.


Thanks,

Ray153

It's rather unfortunate that this has taken so long. I received my "Stanley" irons some months back - about two years from the start of this 9 month project.

This is not a "retailer/customer" relationship, but a few dedicated members trying to do something to benefit us all. I remember whoever took over the posting of the irons, getting so much flack - even though he was just helping out.

The bad feeling that this project has caused will, I'm sure, ensure that the moderators never let another bulk purchase happen on this forum. That may be for the best, as design faults in the first batch of cap-irons, and in the No.10 irons from the second batch, have disappointed me.

It seems that a lot of effort is going into making sure these last items are made right. I hope that those who have been waiting soo loong for their chisels will at least get a good product.

My tuppence worth....

Cheers, Vann.