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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluddman View Post
    was that a special blade or did you just by a spare blade and hone it to 50 degrees?
    Both Veritas and Luban produce produce higher angled blades in addition to the standard 25 degree one supplied with the planes; 38 and 50 degree options Coupled with the 12 degree bedding angle the three blades give you 37, 50 and 62 degree cutting angles.

    For me I wanted the low angled blade for using the plane in a shooting board, and the high angled blade for very cranky or extremely hard timbers. I wasn’t bothered so much with the 38 degree blade option as I have “back bevelled” blades to put in my normal bevel-down planes giving me 50 and 55 degree cutting angles.
    Nothing succeeds like a budgie without a beak.

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  3. #17
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    Thanks Chief. I appreciate the information.

    Cheers

  4. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chief Tiff View Post
    ........ I wasn’t bothered so much with the 38 degree blade option as I have “back bevelled” blades to put in my normal bevel-down planes giving me 50 and 55 degree cutting angles.....
    This was what the 'gurus' were advocating a few decades ago. I dabbled with back-bevels at the time, too, but lost interest after a short while, you are just making heavier work for yourself for little real gain in surface quality, imo. Learning to make constructive use of the chipbreaker/cap-iron turned out to be a far better solution for me (though it did take me a while!). I have a place for a few BU planes in my arsenal, but never use more than 30 deg bevels - why work with a "dull" blade?

    To the OP I'd say, definitely get yourself a BD plane like a #4 and explore the experience of having the bevel the opposite way to what you have had to date. The Bailey style #4 is just about the most versatile plane there is, and perfect for a boxmaker - with a little practice you can easily true box-sized lengths with a #4, and once you master the chip-breaker, you'll rarely pick up a BU plane with a high bevel for taming wild grain ever again. You could end up switching allegiances & favouring BD planes....

    I'm starting to sound like D.W......
    Cheers,
    IW

  5. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanW View Post
    I'm starting to sound like D.W......



    regards from Alberta, Canada

    ian

  6. #20
    Scribbly Gum's Avatar
    Scribbly Gum is offline When the student is ready, the Teacher will appear
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    Yep - a number 3 or a number 4, even with big hands these are easy to use.
    Moreover they are plentiful in the marketplace and won't break the bank even for a new one.
    Tom
    .... some old things are lovely
    Warm still with the life of forgotten men who made them ........................D.H. Lawrence
    https://thevillagewoodworker.blogspot.com/

  7. #21
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    One benefit of getting a BU smoother is that the blade may be shareable with the LAJ increasing its versatility

  8. #22
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    I'm probably the least experienced of the commenters in this thread but I've kind of gone full circle after buying a myriad of planes and then learning that what I thought was sharp, wasn't really sharp enough and I should have been focussing on that first!

    If your blade is actually sharp and the cap iron set appropriately, a run of the mill eBay #4 Stanley or Record makes an excellent plane that can deal with just about any wood. I've got a few BU planes and overall I've come to prefer the BD Bailey or Bedrock style planes. Being able to use the depth adjuster on the fly is very handy and lateral adjustments (for me anyway) are easier. Also, a low angle BU plane can cause worse tear outs than a BD plane if you're not careful.

    As for Bedrock vs Bailey... While I like my Luban 5 1/2 a lot, I can really feel the difference between it and a Record #6 after a few hours planing. The Bailey pattern planes feel much more nimble and you can get a sense of how the plane is interacting with the wood. The Bedrocks tend to feel a lot more like a solid block sliding over the wood. I've got a Luban #4 to directly compare to my Record and Turner and I'm kind of gravitating back to the Bailey pattern. Don't get me wrong, the Luban's are great and I have no qualms about having bought them or using them. If the Luban #4 and #5 /12 were the only planes I had, I'd be happy enough.

    If you don't have a #4, consider a #4. You can use it for smoothing, heavier stock removal, flattening smaller pieces (or even bigger pieces with some care). Out of the box a Veritas (Veritas has a Norris style adjuster) or Lie Nielsen should need no fettling, a Luban maybe a little, so there is the factor of how comfortable you are with fettling your planes and learning through trial and error. Obviously an eBay special could need a fair amount of work - but I've found that taking that route does end up teaching you a bit about how all the parts work together on a plane.

  9. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alkahestic View Post
    I'm probably the least experienced of the commenters in this thread but I've kind of gone full circle after buying a myriad of planes and then learning that what I thought was sharp, wasn't really sharp enough and I should have been focussing on that first!

    If your blade is actually sharp and the cap iron set appropriately, a run of the mill eBay #4 Stanley or Record makes an excellent plane that can deal with just about any wood. I've got a few BU planes and overall I've come to prefer the BD Bailey or Bedrock style planes. Being able to use the depth adjuster on the fly is very handy and lateral adjustments (for me anyway) are easier. Also, a low angle BU plane can cause worse tear outs than a BD plane if you're not careful.

    As for Bedrock vs Bailey... While I like my Luban 5 1/2 a lot, I can really feel the difference between it and a Record #6 after a few hours planing. The Bailey pattern planes feel much more nimble and you can get a sense of how the plane is interacting with the wood. The Bedrocks tend to feel a lot more like a solid block sliding over the wood. I've got a Luban #4 to directly compare to my Record and Turner and I'm kind of gravitating back to the Bailey pattern. Don't get me wrong, the Luban's are great and I have no qualms about having bought them or using them. If the Luban #4 and #5 /12 were the only planes I had, I'd be happy enough.

    If you don't have a #4, consider a #4. You can use it for smoothing, heavier stock removal, flattening smaller pieces (or even bigger pieces with some care). Out of the box a Veritas (Veritas has a Norris style adjuster) or Lie Nielsen should need no fettling, a Luban maybe a little, so there is the factor of how comfortable you are with fettling your planes and learning through trial and error. Obviously an eBay special could need a fair amount of work - but I've found that taking that route does end up teaching you a bit about how all the parts work together on a plane.
    Fabulous post - I think the same, all the way down to the way a plane feels. I like to do A/B tests and then take pictures of things to compare (this is a minority of my time, but it's a great way to settle a question you ask and then ignore to keep moving on). At one point, I thought it would be nice to compare the feel of the LN bronze 4 and a stanley thinking I'd tackled enough to make them feel the same. Well, they don't. The LN (and i'm sure the lubans and woodrivers) tell you how much more smoothly they're cutting by the lack of feeling anything.

    But, I looked more closely at a piece of wood and compared surfaces (something that was difficult to plane cleanly, like wood with a lot of runout - i don't remember exactly what). The surface was the same, but the feel of the two planes was very different. The stanley plane told me what was occurring but the LN plane masked it. I kept the bronze 4 anyway to test irons (sometimes a plane like that is nice for trying to get really accurate testing information), but it's nose heavy due to the extra weight and I ended up selling it last year expecting to get about 75% of retail for it. Someone bought it on ebay on a penny-start auction for over $500 -a guy in the US no less!! And it was by no means mark free. I made him a free iron to go along with it...one in O1 since LN doesn't offer those now.

    gotten off track a little there - your post is spot on.

  10. #24
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    Well-put Alkahestic.

    If anyone persists in using hand planes (any hand tool I guess) they eventually arrive at the point, by intuition or reason or a bit of both, where they develop an intimate understanding of the tool - you know on the first swipe if something isn't right with it. In addition, consciously & unconsciously, our bodies adjust & find the way to do tasks with the least expenditure of effort, and we grow into the tools as much as they grow onto us.

    In the mid-90s I had a cupboard full of Bailey style #4s and several 5s. At that time you could still pick up a half-decent #4 at just about any flea market for $10-20 (I got my excellent Record #7 for $50), so it wasn't hard to develop a plane collection! I had 5 or 6 of them at one point, they were all from different countries & eras so the body castings varied in weight, the handles (totes) were different & each had its own quirks. I developed a bad habit of starting with the one that was the sharpest, then moving on to the next as it dulled, until they were all dull (at which point I finally had to stop & sharpen at least one of them). I was always making small mental adjustments each time I picked up the next plane & never developed a truly comfortable relationship with any of them. I eventually realised there was one I preferred over all the others so I had a fire sale, got rid of the rest of the herd, and settled down to a long & happy relationship with my favourite, sharpening it whenever necessary be it in the middle of a job or not - it only takes a few minutes, after all!

    But we're a restless bunch, we amateur wood-warriors, always looking for the perfect tool or the easy way, and after reading glowing reviews of the Clifton in various mags, I succumbed & bought one a couple of years after clearing out the excess #4s (about 2002, iirc). I'd always wanted a Bedrock, having read an equally enthusiastic article extolling their virtues in a very early FWW, so the Clifton offered a way of experiencing that Bedrock feeling (& at the time they cost a good deal less than a Bedrock in decent condition). Well, me & the Clifton just never hit it off; it felt clunky & stolid after the Bailey & I just never came to love the thing. I think Alkahestic put it very well by describing the bog-standard Baileys as "nimble" - using my old #4 vs the Clifton was like driving a sports car vs driving a truck. It was certainly solid, and capable of fine work (once I got rid of that stupid 2-piece cap-iron, which I could not get to function properly!). I set it up as my "final passes" smoother and so it saw a bit of use, but then I started making my own planes and found one of these to be even better in that role, so the Clifton has gone to a new owner who I hope will get more use & satisfaction from it.

    I think there are a couple of distinct trends emerging in this discussion. The first is that plane preferences vary widely, what person A likes to use for a particular task may be radically different from what person B chooses, but the results may be indistinguishable (which I suspect we all knew already!). Another is that it takes many years of using planes to arrive at the point where you feel you know what you like & more importantly, why you like a particular plane or type of plane for a particular job.

    But when you stop wondering if something else might not suit you better it may mean you are losing interest in your hobby! So don't be afraid to try something new if it appeals to you & you reckon you can justify it, but be aware that we develop certain habits, good & bad, and it always takes a while to adjust to a new tool - using a plane for 5 minutes at a wood show can be very misleading. I recently acquired an old type 11 #4, which had had a hard life, but I really like the Stanleys of that era because the body castings were lighter (& I know some prefer the later, heavier models for precisely the opposite reason ) so I gave it lots of TLC & put it back in service. It took a few months, but gradually I came to prefer it to my much-fettled 50s era English Stanley, so it now takes its place beside by battered old 5 1/2 (also a type 11) and those two planes, along with my #7 do the lion's share of planing in my shed. I have a few ( ) others, but those three I couldn't live without....

    Cheers,
    IW

  11. #25
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    Your choice really depends on your needs and projects. Next buy once cry once. If you can afford the difference pay a little more.
    Skip any bad habits and you will have the extra money.
    The restaurants closed their dining rooms and I have an extra $60-80 per month.
    My favorite WR bedrock sizes are 3 and 4 when properly sharpened razor sharp they are great.
    I can read newspaper print through the fine shavings.
    I recently purchased 2 shoulder plane widths to fill a need.
    l looked at smoothing planes and may someday purchase a low angle Veritas smoothing plane.
    I like the technology, design, pricing and the plane iron metals to choose from.

  12. #26
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    This turned up today.

    IMG_2064.jpg

    I am pretty impressed so far and look forward to giving it a challenging work out. I am still on the hunt for a number # 7.

    Thanks for all the very helpful advice and information.

    Cheers

    Glenn

  13. #27
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    Hi FM. So what is it? The handles look lovely, cherry?

  14. #28
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    Hi Mountain Ash,

    It's a Lie Nielsen #4 - and yes the handles are Cherry.

    It's my first Lie Nielsen - I thought I'd find out whether all the hype is true.

    Cheers

    Glenn

  15. #29
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    Well done Glenn, I will be looking forward to a review on the #4.

    Regards
    Keith

  16. #30
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    Enjoy. I too have heard good things.

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