Thread: Old plane id pre ww2 ?

I don’t believe it is a Stanley; too many inconsistencies but the biggies are the lack of number “4” cast into the toe while the frog is fitted with the later two piece lateral lever, the overly rounded frog top and the Sessions Foundry mark is on the back of the lever cap and behind the frog. Two many bits from different types. If the lateral lever definitely has Stanley and some patent dates stamped on it then I’ll retract my comments but I can’t tell under the rust. If it is a Stanley then it dates to the last ten years or so of the 19th century.

I think it might be a Sargent 409; they’re from the same era and I’m pretty sure they used the same foundry. I also think the lever cap has been japanned; Stanley didn’t do that to their standard bench planes but I don’t know about other brands.

In any case; in that condition (pretty poor) with no definitively known maker to me it wouldn’t see north of $20.

Originally Posted by Chief Tiff

I don’t believe it is a Stanley; too many inconsistencies but the biggies are the lack of number “4” cast into the toe while the frog is fitted with the later two piece lateral lever, the overly rounded frog top and the Sessions Foundry mark is on the back of the lever cap and behind the frog. Two many bits from different types. If the lateral lever definitely has Stanley and some patent dates stamped on it then I’ll retract my comments but I can’t tell under the rust. If it is a Stanley then it dates to the last ten years or so of the 19th century.

I think it might be a Sargent 409; they’re from the same era and I’m pretty sure they used the same foundry. I also think the lever cap has been japanned; Stanley didn’t do that to their standard bench planes but I don’t know about other brands.

In any case; in that condition (pretty poor) with no definitively known maker to me it wouldn’t see north of $20.

interesting that is what is being asked $20 👍

It's going to need a fair bit of TLC, but it looks like it has a chance of coming up a decent user. I can see a chunk of the tote missing along the whole bottom on the LHS, which might be fixable by cleaning it up & glueing on a sliver of matching wood & shaping it to blend in. Unfortunately the Brazilian rosewood that was used up 'til WW2 is now unobtainable (legally, that is). Even if you have a bit kicking about or can find a spare scrap in some instrument-maker's stash, it's hard to get an exact match, the stuff varies quite a bit. I thought I'd matched this old tote up perfectly, but when I re-finished it, the original went much darker than the patches. It's fine for a user though & a bit of age & grime disguises the grafts:
RepRosewood tote red.jpg

Alternatively, # 4 totes are easy enough to come by but check that a Stanley (or Record) compatible tote fits your plane, the maker may have chosen to alter the distance between the stud hole & the little pimple that prevents the tote from slewing, for example. They are also easy enough to make from scratch, the main challenge is drilling the stud-hole accurately.

I'm surprised one of our eagle-eyed resident rhykenologists hasn't come up with an id for you, or at least a suggestion of the likely maker. The lack of any sort of maker's name is unusual, but a possible clue in itself, & there are some other tantalising clues like the low knob. Stanley changed to the high knob before 1920 so it indicates the copier was operating before that date, but of course they could have chosen to use the low knob because they liked it better (as I do!). If the woodwork is genuine rosewood, that pretty well restricts it to pre-WW2, it was little used after that by any manufacturers & certainly not on budget lines...
Cheers,

thanks Ian,
Your thoughts are very similar to mine but as I said my experience is limited.
I guess the question is will it be any better than any Stanley / Bailey #4.
But I would be preserving a little bit of history.
I also have a type 7 Bailey #4 in worse condition with a broken frog. The whole top has been snapped of including the lat. adj. lever. Also broken Rosewood tote.
It is the oldest BaileyI have so will start chasing a replacement frog.
Often the hunt is more rewarding than the find 😆.

Originally Posted by IanW

It's going to need a fair bit of TLC, but it looks like it has a chance of coming up a decent user. I can see a chunk of the tote missing along the whole bottom on the LHS, which might be fixable by cleaning it up & glueing on a sliver of matching wood & shaping it to blend in. Unfortunately the Brazilian rosewood that was used up 'til WW2 is now unobtainable (legally, that is). Even if you have a bit kicking about or can find a spare scrap in some instrument-maker's stash, it's hard to get an exact match, the stuff varies quite a bit. I thought I'd matched this old tote up perfectly, but when I re-finished it, the original went much darker than the patches. It's fine for a user though & a bit of age & grime disguises the grafts:
RepRosewood tote red.jpg

Alternatively, # 4 totes are easy enough to come by but check that a Stanley (or Record) compatible tote fits your plane, the maker may have chosen to alter the distance between the stud hole & the little pimple that prevents the tote from slewing, for example. They are also easy enough to make from scratch, the main challenge is drilling the stud-hole accurately.

I'm surprised one of our eagle-eyed resident rhykenologists hasn't come up with an id for you, or at least a suggestion of the likely maker. The lack of any sort of maker's name is unusual, but a possible clue in itself, & there are some other tantalising clues like the low knob. Stanley changed to the high knob before 1920 so it indicates the copier was operating before that date, but of course they could have chosen to use the low knob because they liked it better (as I do!). If the woodwork is genuine rosewood, that pretty well restricts it to pre-WW2, it was little used after that by any manufacturers & certainly not on budget lines...
Cheers,

Assuming the sole isn’t pitted to buggery and you can either clean up the old blade or fit a new one I would say it likely will potentially perform better than any Stanley made after 1948. Certainly better than any English/Aus made Stanley anyway. I’d elaborate further but that could leave me open to accusations of harbouring rhykenologist tendencies…

Anyway, collecting and using planes is an honourable, wholesome and rewarding hobby. Brace drill collectors on the other hand are moon-touched and swivel-eyed; while collectors of handsaws are proof that man can devolve into furtive, dribbling beasts suffering from a surfeit of ear-hair (immediately ducks and runs….)

Bit of ear hair never hurt anyone and I only have 2 boring braces. I must be nearly normal.

Originally Posted by orraloon

Bit of ear hair never hurt anyone and I only have 2 boring braces. I must be nearly normal.

Hmmm, don't be too hasty to make that diagnosis John - anyone regularly posting in this section is highly suspect I'm afraid.....

Should I add "rhykenologist" to my business cards?