Thread: Should I give up on this plane iron?

I know you don't have a grinder but I would grind it out, shortening the iron a bit, and regrind a bevel and hone.
Send it to me if you want and I will grind it for you.

Eddie - as NCArcher says, it looks like you can get it back to a sound area by taking a mm or so off the busines end, so I'd accept his kind offer if you don't have a grinder of your own. You do risk RSI trying to get those deep pits out!

On the other hand - I think you can make a good case to get yourself a decent after-market blade like a Hock or Lee Valley - these slightly thicker blades usually fit with no problems, and do make a noticeable difference...

Cheers,

That is a very kind offer, but it would be a lot of work for not much blade!

The problem is, the pitting is more extensive than really shows up on the photo. So even if you ground maybe 5mm off the edge, you'd only have a clear spot of about 5mm before you're back to pitting (albeit not as bad).

I can't seem to get a clearer picture of what I mean.

Since I can't remove the pits by lapping, and there's too much to grind away, the only solution I can think of is a back-bevel (the pitting isn't deep enough to interfere with one). Might this work?

Albeit as a temporary fix. Those Hock blades do look good, and only marginally more expensive than an old Stanley replacement.

No one seems to have mentioned anything about just using a back bevel...

Yes I think a back bevel may work on this blade but you will have to grind off a little first to get rid of that deep pitting near the edge.
Remember that by creating a back bevel, you will effectively increase the cutting angle - to what extent depends on the angle of the back bevel of course. Now this could be a good thing in difficult woods but the blade will generate more heat and the edge won't last as long.
BUUUTTT...... you will get life out of this blade by doing so. You've got nothing to lose except your time that you invest in the process.
I would give it a go.

The blade in my 5 1/2 has worse pitting than that at the edge, and I've been using it for the past year.* It works OK, but doesn't hold it's edge very well...


*It was only ever meant to be a "temporary" measure pending the arrival of a new one from the Thumbsucker order. Amazing what you put up with when you have too...

Well, I've taken up NCArcher on his generous offer. Who knows, maybe there will be some life left in her after all...

Back-bevel definately.

Have back bevelled a couple of my more "interesting" blades with good results. In particular my falcon 5 1/2 which has a very thick and heavy base, now makes a very good smoother on wonky jarrah. Previously looked like a junker, so wasn't overly concerned if I ruined the blade.

Cheers
OG

I just read an interesting article about backbevels:

The Sharpening FAQ - Fads and fallacies

In case you're not familiar with it, the contention is that using a plane iron causes a wear bevel on both sides of the blade. Therefore, subsequent honing of the back won't achieve much, since it would be very difficult to remove enough material along the entire length of the back to remove this small wear bevel. Therefore, using a back bevel is the way to go.

Does anyone have any thoughts on that? It does seem to make sense...

Second, how can I go about applying a back-bevel to the iron? I'd prefer to mess with the blade geometry as little as possible for now, so I was planning to use the infamous "ruler trick". But, I've been using an MDF strop for the final stage of sharpening (I wasn't satisfied with the results of the 6000 stone). I don't see how this could work very well with the ruler trick (although I admit I haven't tried it yet).

My other alternative is to use the Mk II honing guide, but it can't manage less than around 7 degrees (and even then, only for longer irons, so the block and shoulder planes are out).

Originally Posted by snafuspyramid

......In case you're not familiar with it, the contention is that using a plane iron causes a wear bevel on both sides of the blade. Therefore, subsequent honing of the back won't achieve much, since it would be very difficult to remove enough material along the entire length of the back to remove this small wear bevel. Therefore, using a back bevel is the way to go.

Eddie - yes, you can't NOT get wear on the face side of the blade, since this is where the rubber hits the road. However, unless you are in the habit of persisteing with very dull blades, the rounding has a pretty small diameter. When rehoning, you usually start on a coarse stone to re-face the bevel, and that ought to bring you back to the flattened (polished) area of the blade-back. I use a medium/fine diamond plate to straighten & facet the bevel after grinding or when re-sharpening between grinds (followed by finer oilstones to polish the faces, of course). If you work until you can just feel a fine, even burr all along the back side of the edge, you should be back to the flat part of the back (unless you are dealing with a very abused or worn cutting edge).

Besides altering cutting geometry, which I have never found a need for, back-bevelling is just one more unnecessary complication for a lazy sod like me. I freehand sharpen, the way I was taught to do in school (more than half a century ago ). I admit it probably took me 10 years of practice to get consistent, shaving-sharp edges every time, but I think it was worth the perseverence.

I think we over-mystify this sharpening business - a good sharp edge is nothing more than the intersection of two flat surfaces. There are many ways to get there, but the results should be pretty much identical.......

Cheers,

So I suppose the trick is to avoid working on a blunt blade, and therefore avoid making the wear bevel too significant.

The main reason why I'm interested in applying back-bevels is that several of the blades I have are buggered. Apart from the blade that this thread is concerned with, I've got a few SW era blades that look like they've been "flattened" in the past, probably on dished stones, with the result that it's not possible to get the blade flat without significantly reducing the thickness of the blade, or grinding the whole thing back about a centimetre.

I think these are the sorts of blades that Charlesworth had in mind.

I don't have a finishing stone over 6000 though, and I can't imagine doing the ruler trick with a strop....

Hi Eddie

Grind it back a few mm. The pits look too deep for the Ruler Trick ..... although there is no harm in trying it first. Just use a thin steel ruler to get the angle. No honing guide required.

Reading too many articles on sharpening does tend to confuse one. If one look everything that Brent wrote literally, we'd turn to sandpaper.

Regards from Perth

Derek

I sent it off to have the edge ground back.

The problem with the ruler trick is that I can't use it with my MDF strop ( or can I?) which means I can't sharpen beyond 6000 grit.

Yes you can, Eddie. Just pull it back ... don't push the blade.



Regards from Perth

Derek