Thread: Plane selection and setup for Australian woods

Hmm...I have tried a few times so I'm probably doing something wrong. I am keen to come on Saturday morning though. If you PM your address I'll see you there. Thanks, Zac.

Originally Posted by IanW

Most folks who get good results from close-set cap-irons will admit it takes a bit of fiddling & perseverance to get it to work for you.

Not trolling at all, it took me about a week to figure out (i was doing a lot of hand work) when I learned how to use it, which was a little bit before the last decade's round of visual proof from videos, etc. In that week, I was able to better higher pitch infills that I'd made, which was a bit of a disappointment - in all situations. match at the least.

Within two weeks, the time it took me to set the cap iron was down to about 15 seconds.

the key with it is that you have to set everything else aside and force yourself to use it and resist the urge to do anything else. I sold all of my scraper plane and high angle stuff (other than my own planes) in less than a year, keeping only one small scraper for japanese plane soles, and have never wished to have them back.

The only caveat with this is if you go to taking a very thick shaving on a very hard wood (think something like the face of cocobolo - like 3300 janka test), those shavings can get under even a well-set plane's cap iron and force you to stop. At the same time, woods like that won't be good to use with a steep pitch plane for anything other than the thinnest shaving, which won't get you very far very fast, as pitches around 55 start to wear very quickly compared to common pitch.

Originally Posted by GraemeCook

Hi Bueller

Besides the multiplicity of sharpening techniques, you will find even the concept of sharpness to be elusive.

You think that you know what a sharp blade is like, then something happens and you have an epithany, a halleluja moment, and realise that there is a sharpness level beyond what you thought was possible, or meaningful. I now like to think of sharpness as a series of plateaux, and when you are ready then you will move to the next. Possibly an endless quest.

Recently I was in Japan and had a lesson from a professional knife sharpener - he had completed a multi-year apprenticeship in blade sharpening, a quite separate craft than chisel smithing or knife making or blade forging. He talked about the blade "gliding through" what was being cut; it did! There is always another tier.

He called himself a knife sharpener. "Sword sharpener is a little pretentious, and not so many swords to sharpen..." He aslo sharpened blades for chisels, planes, gouges, scissors, bonsai trimmers, StarWars and kungfu weapons, etc.


Fair Winds

Graeme

This, one thousand times. It is the single biggest factor for those starting out with blades ans until someone shows them what sharp is and how to get it then they really do not know what the target is. Derek's offer will show you exactly what sharp is and how he gets it. The rest can be advice from a forum, video etc but that approach can't teach sharp. The methods can be taught via a forum but not the end result, that must be felt and experienced.

True, Chris - having someone show you what a sharp, well set-up plane (or even a chisel) feels like can be a revelation for a beginner and gives them an aiming point. But it's still a long hill to climb, and my experience is that you ascend by a series of plateaus. At each level, you think you've arrived at the top, then you discover you've still got a ways to go, and can do a little better. But once you get to "base-camp" where you can produce a decent working edge efficiently & repeatedly, you start enjoying your woodworking more & fussing less with the peripheral details. The actual sharpening process can take many forms and people work out their own ways & means, but when you start getting good & consistent results, you'll know you've arrived somewhere up the slope...

Cheers,

Originally Posted by IanW

But it's still a long hill to climb, and my experience is that you ascend by a series of plateaus. At each level, you think you've arrived at the top, then you discover you've still got a ways to go, and can do a little better.

I suspect that this contributes to many arguments on sharpening - people who believe they’ve arrived at the summit, often not realising that the guy they’re arguing with is already far further up the hill than they are.


For the record, I’m that guy you see out on the trail who doesn’t even know that there’s a big hill around the corner, but has already finished his lunch and drunk most of his water.

Originally Posted by Colin62

.......For the record, I’m that guy you see out on the trail who doesn’t even know that there’s a big hill around the corner, but has already finished his lunch and drunk most of his water........

Gotta remember that one Colin. I think I've eaten my lunch & drunk all my water too soon quite a few times in my life!

Cheers,

Haha got a good point there Colin. I thought I knew what sharp was back when I used pine primarily but our hardwoods are another story!

Wanted to say thank you again for your time today Derek, had an absolute blast talking shop and figuring things out. Keep me in mind if you ever need a favour, I owe you one!

I had fun too

Cheers

Derek

I add my thanks to those of Dan. It really was very kind of you to show us the way you do things (and all your lovely tools - I had to keep my mouth shut to keep the drool in!) I’m sure I’ll see you at the Wood Show this year and hopefully report that this has been a tear out free year. Well here’s to hoping!

Thanks,
Zac

Had a great time with the hand tools in the shop today. Yesterday I sharpened my #4 and my 151 spokeshave and then got them all tuned up and ready to work.

Tested them out today and was pretty blown away at the difference from before our little sharpening and setup chat Derek! Even pulled out an old Jarrah floorboard and gave that a go with the chip breaker set like you said, no tear out! Get to flatten my bench top next weekend, to say I'm excited is an understatement [emoji1]

I added a nice Stanley Bailey #4 1/2 to the collection as well from eBay, should be arriving early this week. Really preferred it to the #4 after using Zac's one!

Oh and in case anyone was wondering what I was doing wrong before...

1) Lever cap was set wayyy too tight. Meant I couldn't adjust the blade depth without taking my hand off the tote.

2) Which leads me to my next problem. I was previously turning over the plane and trying to visually inspect the depth of the blade from below. Derek showed me it's a lot easier to just adjust the depth while keeping the plane moving over the wood. Then you can feel it catch the second the blade protrudes.

3) Cap iron wasn't set close enough. Can get away with a lot more in Pine than you can in Jarrah. Setting it about .5mm back for that.

+ Some other stuff like not sharpening regularly enough and little things like wax on the sole of the plane to help things along.

Still have a long way to go, made a mess of a #5 iron at the grinder yesterday and my cambers are still awful but making steady progress!

Originally Posted by bueller

...... I was previously turning over the plane and trying to visually inspect the depth of the blade from below. Derek showed me it's a lot easier to just adjust the depth while keeping the plane moving over the wood. Then you can feel it catch the second the blade protrudes....

Took me a few years to figure that out for myself, so Derek's handed you a useful shortcut. It's so much easier to judge the thickness & evenness of a shaving than trying to squint down the sole & adjust the blade protrusion by a thousandth of an inch or so. Superman would find it easy with his microscopic vision, but it's a little more challenging for us mere mortals! In time you'll be able to judge the thickness of the shaving to within a thou by its transparency & the way it collapses on itself as it shoots up the throat. The sound of the plane as it cuts also tells you much about the sharpness of the blade & shaving thickness, but as each plane is a bit different, that's something you pick up by osmosis as you come to know your regular users intimately. I can remember the feeling of utter triumph I had when I first managed to get a plane fettled and sharpened so it would take full-width fine shavings off a piece of Walnut. I still had much to learn about planes (& still learning!), but there's nothing like a minor triumph to encourage us on our way.

Learning to use tools so they are working efficienly & not fighting us intensifies the pleasure of woodwork about a hundred times over, I reckon. I had a similar journey with saws. For many years I was able to find a competent sharpener and my saws were at least usable, if not in perfect shape. Then about 25 years ago, I found myself in a situation where I could find no one who could competently sharpen my backsaws. I started sharpening them myself, but it was hit & miss (mostly miss), to the point where none of them worked very well, it became impossible to cut anything accurately with them & I found myself avoiding hand sawing, which put severe limits on what I could actually make! Eventually, I bit the bullet, did some reading, got hold of a cast-off magnifying lamp, & went at it seriously. Success came gradually, blundering along on my own, but eventually it got to the point where I can sharpen & set a saw & expect it to cut smoothly & straight. Then I got into making saws & learnt lots more about these deceptively simple little bits of kit. Cutting dovetails & tenons soon went from a chore to be avoided or at least minimised, to sheer pleasure.......

Cheers,

Originally Posted by IanW

Took me a few years to figure that out for myself, so Derek's handed you a useful shortcut. It's so much easier to judge the thickness & evenness of a shaving than trying to squint down the sole & adjust the blade protrusion by a thousandth of an inch or so. Superman would find it easy with his microscopic vision, but it's a little more challenging for us mere mortals! In time you'll be able to judge the thickness of the shaving to within a thou by its transparency & the way it collapses on itself as it shoots up the throat. The sound of the plane as it cuts also tells you much about the sharpness of the blade & shaving thickness, but as each plane is a bit different, that's something you pick up by osmosis as you come to know your regular users intimately. I can remember the feeling of utter triumph I had when I first managed to get a plane fettled and sharpened so it would take full-width fine shavings off a piece of Walnut. I still had much to learn about planes (& still learning!), but there's nothing like a minor triumph to encourage us on our way.

Learning to use tools so they are working efficienly & not fighting us intensifies the pleasure of woodwork about a hundred times over, I reckon. I had a similar journey with saws. For many years I was able to find a competent sharpener and my saws were at least usable, if not in perfect shape. Then about 25 years ago, I found myself in a situation where I could find no one who could competently sharpen my backsaws. I started sharpening them myself, but it was hit & miss (mostly miss), to the point where none of them worked very well, it became impossible to cut anything accurately with them & I found myself avoiding hand sawing, which put severe limits on what I could actually make! Eventually, I bit the bullet, did some reading, got hold of a cast-off magnifying lamp, & went at it seriously. Success came gradually, blundering along on my own, but eventually it got to the point where I can sharpen & set a saw & expect it to cut smoothly & straight. Then I got into making saws & learnt lots more about these deceptively simple little bits of kit. Cutting dovetails & tenons soon went from a chore to be avoided or at least minimised, to sheer pleasure.......

Cheers,

Funnily enough check out this plane manual I got with a recent 4 1/2 purchase. Even Stanley had it wrong!



Pretty happy with the purchase actually, blade doesn't appear to have ever even been sharpened and the sole still has the original grinding marks. Pretty close to NIB except for some rust. Never gotten this style box or a manual before, need to date it again because I'm starting to think I got my original early 1930s date wrong, it's just too clean for a 90 year old plane.