Thread: Show off your planes

Originally Posted by ian

a lazy tradie would NEVER touch a tool taht wasn't 240 or battery powered

However a craftsman most certainly will

Rob Millard for example makes his living with hand tools see here
http://www.americanfederalperiod.com/home.htm


ian

Making a living from something is very subjective. He's making some very impressive stuff but I'd be surprised if he were making a living where he could actually cover his living expenses. I've met plenty of furniture makers and woodturners that say that's what they do for a living. Dig a bit deeper and you find out they have a wife that has a great paying job or some other significant income... To be honest I can say I've only ever met a hand full that made a decent living from genuine woodwork, not that particle board box shyte. It really sucks, cause I know I wouldn't be doing what I'm doing now if it did pay. But since I don't want to be eating dog food when I'm 70 I'll keep my present job.

I'd guess that many amateur furniture makers would be combining machines and hand tools and vary in when they reach for what.

hi this the falcon #5 i just done up and lost the frog screw
umm swmbo found it this morning when i told here it destroyed the resale value of a $200 antique plane
snigger snigger
she found it in 5 minutes

here she is

Looks good OP.

Nice find by the missus ;-}

Originally Posted by Toolin Around

Making a living from something is very subjective. He's making some very impressive stuff but I'd be surprised if he were making a living where he could actually cover his living expenses. I've met plenty of furniture makers and woodturners that say that's what they do for a living. Dig a bit deeper and you find out they have a wife that has a great paying job or some other significant income... To be honest I can say I've only ever met a hand full that made a decent living from genuine woodwork, not that particle board box shyte. It really sucks, cause I know I wouldn't be doing what I'm doing now if it did pay. But since I don't want to be eating dog food when I'm 70 I'll keep my present job.

Bearing in mind that the North American market contains in excess of 300 MILLION people (and I don't know how many thousands of millionairs) I've no doubt that Rob Millard and many similar craftsmen make a very comfortable living making top end furniture. Remember these guys are not competing for sales against IKEA or container loads of "solid wood" furniture made in China, Indonesia or Vietnam, but are typically making stuff on commission that often costs more than a medium sized car.

I'd call it comfortable living if I made 4 or 5 pieces like this a year

From memory this one costs ~$25k


ian

Originally Posted by Wongo

I have an idea. Take a picture of your plane collection and post it here tonight. C’mon show us your LV, LN, Majunfung, Stanley, Clifton, Record planes. What do you reckon?

Finally got around to taking a couple of images of my hand planes,but I
forgot to include the stanley 71 and 78 and the record 50C.
Nothing flash but all functional.Camera batteries died anyway.

Originally Posted by derekcohen

DB

You have good taste in your choices.

I am in the process of re-organising stuff ... it piles up. Hence I am selling bits and pieces.

Here is a recent picture of some (and, yes, I use them all - I rarely use my power tools these days, with the exception of the bandsaw).

Good luck with the wife

Regards from Perth

Derek

That massive jointer just fits the cupboard ,did you make it that length to suit the space in the cupboard or did you plan the cupboard to take the jointer that you were going to build in the future? Interesting way to store the hand saws also .
Nice tools anyway ,I could never get away with the MFWAF with that many planes.

Cheers
Kev

No I agree with Zed. How many of those craftsmen of two centuries ago were in the elite group making Chippendales and so on? Most of them were churning out furniture for the masses and they were getting the job done with the tools that were common at the time. I bet the overwhelming majority of them would have been knocked out by the machinery the average backyard woodie has at his or her disposal. They probably wouldn't chuck out their Norris infills but I'm sure most of them would be amazed at what could be done with a machine.

I think there are two types of hand tool user today: the one who uses them because it is their whim to do so in the pursuit of a pastime; and the one who makes 'handcrafted' furniture for the elite market and thus requires hand tool input for the associated kudos, which is what brings the price tag. The average furniture maker (and not just the chipboard jockey) uses plenty of machinery because it is expedient to do so and the majority of his customers do not care how it was made, but what it looks like.

I have a kitchen dresser at home made from recycled oregon. I bought it from a show room in Sydney, nowhere flash just the local 'handcrafted' furniture business, stuff churned out by a Chinese family. I went to the workshop and there was plenty of noise and not much whooshing of hand planed curlies. It's a nice enough looking stick of furniture but there are no illusions of craftsmen of yore attached to it. I believe this is the norm for this type of item. Then you have the whole Ikea/Freedom Furniture world, but let's not go there.

The point is, we use these hand tools because we like to, not because we have to. With the exception of the lucky few 'boutique' makers, most people in the business cannot afford to be so whimsical.

a lazy tradie would NEVER touch a tool taht wasn't 240 or battery powered

That's a little bit like saying that someone who chooses to drive into town to pick up the groceries rather than walking is lazy. The walk would be nice, and after all it's the way their ancestors did it (if they weren't rich enough to own a horse and cart), but it takes a long time when you have a million and one other things to do.

The other thing I think that gets forgotten about in this debate is that the jointers and table saws and spindle moulders were invented by woodies to solve a perceived problem. It's not as though they were thrust upon us. They had a name for the people who rejected the machines

Most of the makers of fine furniture that I know (not a huge number, but a few) use hand tools for finishing. So they use their buzzers and table saws and band saws to get everything to the right size and as smooth as a machine will do it, then use a hand plane or a scraper to finish the timber. All the ones that I know use dovetail jigs for dovetails, and mortise drills for mortises, etc. Commercially it is too time consuming to cut those kinds of things by hand unless the customer specifically demands it (and sometimes they do). So I would say that while the modern machines are invaluable and contribute hugely to the ability of a furniture maker to actually make a living, the hand tools are also used and retained because they perform a function that is difficult to achieve with machines. Having used both myself, I can appreciate them for the functions that they perform, but I find that I also appreciate my hand tools for their intrinsic beauty, and for the remembrance of the hands that have held them before mine....

Most of the makers of fine furniture that I know

It depends then on whether you consider 'makers of fine furniture' to be a mainstream industry or a small niche market. As I said, there is a market for this type of furniture, but the overwhelming majority of the items made are not for this market and there is no value in using hand tools, unless it is to do something that cannot be done economically with a machine. I have personally never met someone who has had a stick of furniture made and specifically requested that the dovetails be handcut. I've met few people outside the field who even know what a dovetail is.

Why was the jointer invented? Why did someone think we needed a spindle moulder? Why do we have morticers? Would a furniture maker from 1860 faced with making hundreds of mortice and tenon joints for a bed not swoon if he saw how quickly it could be done with a morticer or a router? Or would he spurn the machines because his hand tools were passed down from his great grandfather? Would he marvel at how good a job a drum sander does of smoothing a table top, or would he prefer to sweat all over it with his card scraper?

It would depend upon the individual for sure, but I bet most of them could see the advantage, and not just the lazy ones either.

Originally Posted by silentC

It depends then on whether you consider 'makers of fine furniture' to be a mainstream industry or a small niche market. As I said, there is a market for this type of furniture, but the overwhelming majority of the items made are not for this market and there is no value in using hand tools, unless it is to do something that cannot be done economically with a machine. I have personally never met someone who has had a stick of furniture made and specifically requested that the dovetails be handcut. I've met few people outside the field who even know what a dovetail is.

Why was the jointer invented? Why did someone think we needed a spindle moulder? Why do we have morticers? Would a furniture maker from 1860 faced with making hundreds of mortice and tenon joints for a bed not swoon if he saw how quickly it could be done with a morticer or a router? Or would he spurn the machines because his hand tools were passed down from his great grandfather? Would he marvel at how good a job a drum sander does of smoothing a table top, or would he prefer to sweat all over it with his card scraper?

It would depend upon the individual for sure, but I bet most of them could see the advantage, and not just the lazy ones either.

My guess is it's all professional woodworkers are using power tools to some degree. No one is going to face and edge by hand 700 board feet of white oak - just doesn't happen. Hand made is like the term home made - it's the spirit of it...

Originally Posted by Toolin Around

No one is going to face and edge by hand 700 board feet of white oak.

Specially not in Oz!

P

The other advantage of hand tools is that it is quiet.
for me this is very mportant, in that the only time I can do any work is at night, and with having a new born and 2 year old, I have to keep the noise down, and so I am limited to handtools.