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  1. #16
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    David, I can't offer any incontrovertible proof that the Norris adjuster has nothing to do with 'exposure creep', but the plane I made that has the problem doesn't have an adjuster, so at the very least that suggests there are other other causes.

    I simply cannot see how an adjuster like the Norris system could contribute in any way to a downward rotation of the cutting edge when the LC is tightened. The two most logical & likely causes that I can deduce are either the blade is slightly banana-shaped, or the bed is slightly convex. The former is as likely as the latter, because of the flexing created by tightening the cap-iron screw, so either or both may be the cause in any given plane.

    Plane weight is very much a personal preference thing - I quite like the heft of my infill smoothers, and as you say, you don't usually wield them for hours on end. However, I hear you when it comes to my panel plane! The one I put together a while back weighs a hefty 8.9 pounds, and I sure notice that after pushing it around for just 10 minutes! It has eliminated any lingering desire I may have had for an infill jointer. My puny #7 will do just fine, thanks.....

    Cheers,
    IW

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  3. #17
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    I don't really have any proof, either, but I think the issue occurs due to the iron bending in such a way that it's pushed deeper when the adjustment is tightened. I've noticed that a lot of infills have a tendency to lateral adjust slightly when the lever cap is tightened, but not so much the same with depth (except for the later norris and one other plane that I have).

    The mechanism that is probably occurring is the cap iron being pushed tighter on the sprung part (while the top under the screw doesn't do much because there isn't any spring), pushing the iron down. How much, I don't know. It shouldn't happen if bedding is good, but maybe it isn't.

    If my guess is right, it could also be the later cap iron design that has a lot more spring than the earlier flatter designs that ward made (I prefer the earlier by far, but the later ones must've been cheaper to make. The best cap iron design for woodies and infills is a slightly sprung cap with a long gradual low bevel angle, terminating in a small rounded angle a mm or a little more long at the end, about 60 degrees where it meets the iron and curved up from there.

    That puts little influence on the iron compared to a much taller design, and it doesn't have much ability to lengthen and get closer to the edge.

    One of the worst plane designs that I've seen is the later Ulmia type designs with a really high sprung cap iron. It creates clearance issues, and then mujingfang decided to copy it on their euro style planes. On top of the clearance issues (which they solve by making the wear really short), it also tends to move toward the edge a lot as you tighten a wedge. Norris has a design about halfway in between. Maybe the ulmia design allowed for a sloppier factory wedge fit - I wouldn't be surprised- that and shorter fingers.

    The ECE dealers here in the states made a hard charge at stanley planes about 20 years ago with a list of all of the flaws that they fixed with primus planes. I've never met a professional tool maker who has any taste for them. They are substantially inferior to leonard bailey's design, but sometimes marketing sells more planes than performance. They even have terrible irons to top it off, and they use the term "wears like iron". I guess if you tried to make a plane iron out of iron and put bbs in the mix, they kind of remind me of that.

  4. #18
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    Thinking about it, the higher sprung later cap irons that norris used probably allowed for a sloppier alignment with the lever cap.

  5. #19
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    Well, a little progress has been made; over the last few weeks, I've snuck into the shed whenever I could & my new mini-smoother is starting to take shape.

    Just to re-cap, I'm going to use the adjuster I made with two 'subtractive' threads: 1 Adjuster.jpg

    I'm curious to see how it will work out in practice - I can always switch to the Rh/LH configuration if I run into problems.

    I've made a cap-iron because the Veritas block-plane blade doesn't come with one: 1a cap-iron.jpg

    And managed to bang together some bits of brass & steel for the body: 2 Chassis 1.jpg 3 Chassis 2.jpg

    Over a few 'coffee breaks', I made a mock-up of the handle/bed part (two, actually, one very rough thing to get the basic dimensions close, and the second more like the real thing). Got that one very close, but showed me I needed to move the pivot-point of the circular nut forward by a few more mm. With this 'subtractive' thread arrangement, I only get half as much total travel between maximum extension & full retraction compared with the LH/RH style, so the position of the driver nut is more critical than usual. 4 Handle mock-up.jpg

    Moving the pivot point just a little further down will give me about 2.5mm of maximum edge projection. You would never need to have the blade projecting so far, of course, but Veritas's system engages the blade, not the lever-cap screw like Norris's original. This means your adjuster has to work over a longer range, to compensate for blade wear. The holes in the blade are spaced with the greater travel of the Veritas adjuster in mind, so I've got to be sure than when the blade wears down, my modified adjuster will still extend the edge far enough before switching to the next hole in the blade.

    You don't have this problem with adjusters that drive the blade via the cap-iron screw head because the screw-head is always in the same relative position (give or take a fraction of a mm), so the adjuster doesn't have to move over a very large distance to do its job.

    OK, now to decide what wood to use for the stuffing.....
    Cheers,
    IW

  6. #20
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    Default Some (slow) progress...

    The plane build is proceeding at a glacial pace, but things are happening.

    After much scuffling through my wood pile, I decided the only suitable material I had of good enough quality was some of my very depleted She-oak reserves. So the necessary bits were duly prepared. I like to get the grip close to finished before glueing on the cheeks because it is more awkward to scrape & sand with the cheeks added: 5 Stuffing.jpg

    While the glue set on those bits, I prepared the templates I'm gong to need to fit it: 6 fitting stuffing 1.jpg

    Once the rear stuffing is ready, I trace the side patterns & the internal sole profile on it, & saw off as much of the waste as I safely can: 7 fitting stuffing 2.jpg

    Then it's a matter of paring, rasping, planing, & sanding, or whatever method suits, until it fits snugly in place. The sharp edges of the sides are very useful; tapping the stuffing down lightly makes very clear scrape-marks that show the high spots: 8 fitting stuffing 3.jpg

    My little thumb plane and mid-sized shoulder plane are the bees' knees for finessing the fit, along with a couple of sharp chisels. This is a job not to be rushed, I've caused myself tears in the past by being hasty, it's remarkable how little wood there is between a nice fit & a bad fit!

    Eventually, the stuffing was sitting where it should be. 9 fitting stuffing 4.jpg

    The outside edges that matter most are all good, but there are a couple of tiny gaps inside between the bed & the sides, but they'll fill in nicely with epoxy and in any case, they won't be on general view.

    With luck, I should get the front bun ready tomorrow & then I can glue both in place ready for riveting...

    Cheers,
    IW

  7. #21
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    Default A few steps forward (& a couple back!)

    Yeah, well, I did rush it a bit on the front bun to try & get the stuffing glued in Friday evening, & managed to over-cut when sawing off the waste on one side. It was a barely visible blemish, and I was tossing up whether to re-make it or just go ahead & use it, when a sudden change of family plans killed my shed time for several days. I decided I just wouldn’t be happy with the bun I’d made, so when I got back to the shed I made a new one. This time I made no blunders & the fit is as near-to-perfect as I’m capable of achieving, so all good.
    Something to be aware of when using epoxy glue to bed stuffing; it acts as a lubricant & I’ve had trouble in the past with pieces creeping a bit under even the very minimal clamping pressure I apply. So I’m now ultra-cautious & check & re-check before leaving the glue to cure. 11 stuffing ready.jpg

    Now I can turn my attention to making a lever-cap. The first job is to make a template & a wooden mock-up, to get the length& position of the thumbscrew sorted. I have to do this every time because so far, I’ve not made the same plane twice, & each & every LC has been different. I measured the distance from where the LC has to bear on the cap-iron, back to where the thumbscrew needs to be. With the template made, I traced out my mock-up on a bit of 3/8” thick wood, cut it out, & drilled & tapped a hole for the thumbscrew, then set it in place to make sure it fits properly. 12 making LC a.jpg

    Sorting the correct position for a LC takes a bit of fiddling. It has to sit far enough off the blade assembly to allow it to be slid in & out, but not too far off, or it will need a very long thumbscrew, and sit at a not-very-attractive steep angle to the bade & blade bed when tightened down. The cap-iron screw is the problem, it needs extra clearance so the blade assembly will fit under the LC far enough for it to drop into its slot in the bed. On a single-iron plane, with no cap-iron screw to cause bother, you don’t have to worry about that aspect. I have seen a few old planes with lever caps set very high, & thumbscrews poking back at odd angles, so it’s obviously not the end of the world if your plane turns out that way, it just looks odd to me.
    The mock-up is looking pretty good, so I’ll go with these dimensions for my LC: 13 Making LC b.jpg

    I traced my template onto some brass bar stock & cut out the rough shape. For a smallish plane like this one, 3/8” stock is sufficient, but for a larger plane, I’d use ½” thick stuff, so I can put a good curve on the upper surface. The curve is both for looks & to make a good, clear throat to allow shavings to exit freely.
    To help me keep the top circular & symmetrical, I screw a steel washer down on the top, which acts as a good guide when sawing & filing the brass flush: 14 Making LC c.jpg

    To shape it, I hacksaw off as much waste as I can, then go at it with files, starting with very coarse ones & proceeding to finer ones. It doesn’t take very long to see the general shape emerge & soon the top looks a bit more like a LC: 15 Making LC d.jpg

    You don’t really need to cut a curve underneath, but it gives you a sharper end & makes it easier to get the edge straight & resting nicely on the top of the cap-iron.
    To scoop out the concavity, I draw the curve freehand on the sides, then make a series of saw-cuts down to the lines: 17 Making LC.jpg

    The waste can be knocked out with a small, sharp cold-chisel or simply filed off with a coarse half-round file, then sanded smooth with various grades of cloth-backed paper wrapped around a suitably=sized dowel: 18 Making LC.jpg

    In about an hour and a half, my bit of bar stock has turned into a lever cap. It needs final sanding & polishing, but I won’t do that until after I drill & tap the pivot holes: 20 Making LC.jpg

    Right, the next job will be setting the rivets through the woodwork & then smoothing the sides. With luck, that will happen tomorrow....
    Cheers,
    IW

  8. #22
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    All ways a pleasure to read your threads Ian.
    Keep up the fantastic work.

    Cheers Matt

  9. #23
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    Default Nearly there.....

    Over the last few days I've managed enough time on my plane to glue & rivet in the stuffing & smooth the woodwork to the sides. The whole thing still needs final sanding and a bit more shaping of the front bun: Stuffed.jpg

    But before that step, I fitted the lever-cap. I always do this part very carefully, if I make a mess of it, the whole plane would be a dead horse, so I spend a good deal of time fiddling with it to get the LC in the right position & the holes for the pivot screws aligned. Eventually, I was satisfied I had everything laid out correctly, so into the drill press it went, & two 5.5mm holes drilled through the sides. I had just enough time tonight to make the steel pivot screws and put it together. Everything fits, the LC clamps down squarely - phew!! All togther.jpg

    Next session, I'll lap the sole, now I can clamp the blade assembly in, & another hour or so should see it ready to make some test shavings, at last. It will take another hour or so to sand & polish the metal & woodwork, but the end is finally in sight....

    Cheers,
    IW

  10. #24
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    Default Finished, more or less..

    Had a few more hours to myself yesterday & managed to finish the plane off.

    The sole needed flattening, of course. First 20 or thirty strokes over 80 grit showed a dip in the centre: 1st strokes.jpg

    I've noticed this on a few planes I've made, I presume it's caused by all the bashing to close the dovetails, even though I thought I had the pieces adequately supported & clamped to the peening block.

    The dip was only a coupe of thou, and after about a 1/2 hour I had it cleaned up as far as 180 grit:
    Almost done.jpg

    Not yet perfect, but close enough for a trial run. A bit of fiddling with the cap-iron (didn't tighten it properly first time & it moved), and I got some nice, fluffy shavings: First shavings.jpg

    First impressions are that it has a good 'feel', my modified adjuster is a lot easier to advance for fine cuts than the original Veritas version, but a bit awkward for lateral adjusting. I decided the shaft was too fat & that was impeding movement close to the pivot point, so I put it back in the lathe & shaved it down. Also took about 6mm offthe length to make it look a bit more in proportion. That made the lateral movement a lot freer.

    There is still a bit of fiddling & fettling to be done to get it to full tune, but with the encouragement of seeing that it works ok, I cleaned it up & polished the woodwork so it could pose for a portrait: IMG_4119.jpg

    Apart from my first effort at a D/T plane, this has been the longest of builds; I had the sides cut out well before Christmas, so it's had a long gestation...

    Cheers,
    IW

  11. #25
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    Ian

    That is a wonderful build and somewhat inspirational. I wrote to a mutual friend last night, who lives in Seattle, and happened to comment by the way that I was beginning to feel a plane making urge coming on, particularly as I have some materials already accumulated. Fortunately, I have been totally preoccupied with making up our new office computer desk and bookcase (it's only taken me twelve months). On top of that I have two hand saw orders that the customers have been very patient with as they have maintained there is no urgency with them. So... I just don't have the time.

    But, one day........ although it won't be anywhere near as ambitious as your project. I do love those dovetail bodies with brass and timber infill. Their heft always leads me to think of pocket battleships.

    Superb and thanks for the description of the process.

    Regards
    Paul
    Bushmiller;

    "Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"

  12. #26
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    Simply stunning, I’d even go as far to say it’s worthy of becoming your new avatar!
    Nothing succeeds like a budgie without a beak.

  13. #27
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    Impressive and inspirational are two words that come to mind. Thanks for letting us share the journey Ian.
    ​Brad.

  14. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chief Tiff View Post
    ..... it’s worthy of becoming your new avatar!
    'Tis a bit better than my old #1, CT, but at the resolution of those little avatar pics, I don't think anyone could see a difference..

    The main problem though, is that I don't remember how I shrank that picture to the right size - I do remember it took a good deal of fiddling to get it right.

    Thanks for the compliments, folks - what I'm hoping is that it inspires a few of you to have a go......

    Cheers,
    IW

  15. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanW View Post
    'Tis a bit better than my old #1, CT, but at the resolution of those little avatar pics, I don't think anyone could see a difference..

    The main problem though, is that I don't remember how I shrank that picture to the right size - I do remember it took a good deal of fiddling to get it right.

    Thanks for the compliments, folks - what I'm hoping is that it inspires a few of you to have a go......

    Cheers,
    Ian,
    If you could run a new thread on building time.
    I would happily make a start.
    Yet again you make it seem all so simple and elegant.

    Cheers Matt,

  16. #30
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    Matt, it's a bit misleading, some of my posts would have covered a week's worth of puttering, others no more than a coupe of hours. Total time from bits of flat metal to fluffy shavings was >7 months! I started before Christmas when I cut out the sides because I needed the off-cuts for something else. It languished for several months, then I started again, changed my mind about the sole profile, & decided to put a tote on it instead of a rear bun. That required some re-thinking, so I put it aside again until about 4 or 5 weeks ago when I finally made a serious start one rainy day. Then I had to push it into the background because the sun came out again & forced me back to yard duties. It got done in dribs & drabs after that, whenever I could get an hour or two in the shed. I'd estimate something like 5 full days went into it.

    Each of the 10 dovetail-bodied planes I've made was different, & needed some careful thinking out to get side-profiles right with the bumps & dips in the right places. On my second plane, I drew up a side profile, cut out both sides, then realised I'd not allowed for the thickness of the chip-breaker & put the dip in the wrong place so the lever-cap pivot points would be too close to the edge (I managed to salvage some of the brass for marking-gauge wear strips ).

    Making mock-ups for stuffing, etc., also adds to time (but doesn't guarantee there won't be an occasional stuff-up!), so to be honest, I don't know how long it would take to make a plane from scratch if I were really serious about cranking it out. Apart from using the lathe to make the thumbscrew & adjuster parts, and the drill-press to make a few straight holes, it's all hand work, & I could speed things up a little with a bit of extra machinery like a decent linisher, and a good mill to cut the mouths out would definitely save some RSI!

    However, I'm doing this for fun, and to demonstrate that it can be done with very simple tools, and point out my blunders to help others avoid them. The main attribute you need to make a good plane isn't so much skill, it's persistence!

    And btw, Veritas has obviously acknowledged one of the shortcomings of its adjuster. I only spotted this a couple of days ago, so don't know how long it has been available.

    Cheers,
    IW

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