Thread: Planing straight and true

Originally Posted by Cruzi

Jointing is definitely one of the easier tasks with a plane, because it does not matter if you are not square, it does not matter if the plane is not fettled, it does not matter if you don't have much experience, because the way you align boards means that any error is not magnified but reflected in the other board.

Still need some technique. If you dub the ends over or manage somehow to create a hollow in the middle, you're in trouble.
Cheers,
Jim

Originally Posted by Cruzi

Jointing is definitely one of the easier tasks with a plane, because it does not matter if you are not square, it does not matter if the plane is not fettled, it does not matter if you don't have much experience, because the way you align boards means that any error is not magnified but reflected in the other board.

Cruzi - not sure I agree with your first 3 tenets (I've only been at it for a while, & maybe I'm a just a tool retard )

But I definitely disagree with you on your last statement, The error SIDE to SIDE cancels out, PROVIDED the blade is sharpend dead straight, & your error remains in the one plane for the length of the board. But if you think about any LONGITUDINAL errors, (i.e. slight hills or slight dips) they are doubled. It's not an idiot-proof method, unfortunately, or I would be one of the first to embrace it. Things can get ugly when you try it for joining several boards at once, so I think I'll go on presevering with one-at-a-time jointing except for quick & dirty jobs.

Ern - a plane can't cut a straight line in theory, but in practice, you can make it do something very close. That's why hand work is challenging & fun.

Cheers,

Originally Posted by IanW

Cruzi - not sure I agree with your first 3 tenets (I've only been at it for a while, & maybe I'm a just a tool retard )

But I definitely disagree with you on your last statement, The error SIDE to SIDE cancels out, PROVIDED the blade is sharpend dead straight, & your error remains in the one plane for the length of the board. But if you think about any LONGITUDINAL errors, (i.e. slight hills or slight dips) they are doubled. It's not an idiot-proof method, unfortunately, or I would be one of the first to embrace it. Things can get ugly when you try it for joining several boards at once, so I think I'll go on presevering with one-at-a-time jointing except for quick & dirty jobs.

Ern - a plane can't cut a straight line in theory, but in practice, you can make it do something very close. That's why hand work is challenging & fun.

Cheers,

My primary issue with it, as Ian and I both commented, is the troubling aspect of adhesive-lubricated boards sliding over one another at glue up. It's like herding cats when that happens.

(And to be fair to that Michael chap, he did say that a flat jointer tends towards a flat planed edge with only a small error, and if you start with a machine-straightened edge, you can use whatever length flat plane you like and the edge will stay flat... )

Cheers
Michael

Apologies again to that Michael chap for any misrepresentation

I lament my lack of a tech education.

I had made the assumption that Tiger wasn't cleaning up after a jointer.

....

Well we haven't heard much from him since the OP.

I offer him the use of my power jointer for the cost of blade sharpening, and if he's interested we could have a play at hand jointing with my new V. BU.

Originally Posted by rsser

Apologies again to that Michael chap for any misrepresentation

none needed, but the exam is coming up soon

I lament my lack of a tech education.

I had made the assumption that Tiger wasn't cleaning up after a jointer.

Jeese, what's the OP got to do with the discussion? :tongueincheek:
....

Well we haven't heard much from him since the OP.

smart move I reckon

I offer him the use of my power jointer for the cost of blade sharpening, and if he's interested we could have a play at hand jointing with my new V. BU.

Let me wring out the bugs in it for a few months Ern

Cheers
Michael

Guys, you really should get a couple of boards, mark the faces, face them in or out, get a No 6 for short to medium stuff or a 7 for medium to long stuff and deliberately plane a twist, so long as you have a full length cut (conceded), you will get a perfect join.

Want to join a few boards, do each join in turn.

It really isn't rocket science.

Have been doing it that way for a while now and for a couple of years it was the only way of jointing I had.
I had struggled with fences and shooting boards became impractical with longer boards, but once you get the boards right, it was easy and bloody quick.
Now if you try and joint with a No 4 you are never going to get it right, can be done on small stuff with a No 5 but if you can make dips with a No 6 or 7, well........

Yes, expect I can make dips with whatever, and practice and testing is the only way to go; quite right Cruzi.

Michael, I'll send the V. up happily. If you send it back flat ;-} With the new feeler gauges (if they can be trusted) under the V. straight edge ( if it can be trusted) the front of the mouth is about 1 thou concave. I say 'about' since the feelers only go down to 1.5

Yes, time to bone up on the geometry so I can pass the exam

Originally Posted by Cruzi

so long as you have a full length cut (conceded), you will get a perfect join......

...snip...

Originally Posted by Cruzi

now if you try and joint with a No 4 you are never going to get it right, can be done on small stuff with a No 5 but if you can make dips with a No 6 or 7, well........

Also I would add that this method works as long as the edges are not planed to be convex. I've found small 'dips' not to be so much a problem as these are similar to a sprung joint, but too much pressure on either end of the stroke leads to a join where there are gaps at the end (as it does on other methods of jointing).

Just saying the method is not completely foolproof, but also agreeing it does cover for some types of error.

Thanks guys for your input on this as I'm sure I'm not the only one who has wondered how to plane true.

Just to answer any queries. Ern, the boards I do tend to vary from 20 mm to 40 mm thick. I do have a jointer but I am after that seemingly perfect joint that hand planing gives you, sometimes I get it right, other times I don't even get close.

Well you have a diagnostic job to do Tiger. If it's the same plane producing diff results your technique is varying.

See up the vid cam on a tripod and do your own analysis or post on YouTube.

This is how we sometimes problem-solve in ski telemark turning. When you can observe yourself outside of the pressure of not falling over it can be revealing.

Michael - changing the subject slightly, I know what you mean about flat surfaces sliding around during glue up. For me that's one of the BIG benefits of the domino machine; even if the edges have plenty of surface area for glue, I'll put a couple of dominoes in just to accurately register the two pieces. With this done (on the tight fitting domino setting) you can then concentrate on clamping to provide uniform pressure along the glue line without having to worry about the parts sliding around and out of alignment.

Just curious - has anyone tried the fence attachment for the Veritas BU Jointer (shown earlier in this thread)?? Does it work as intended, or is it one of the very small percentage of Veritas products that ALMOST work?

K, can satisfy your curiosity perhaps Mr B. I got one with my new BU jointer and will give it a run this arvo.

Ern - love to hear how it goes......cheers

It LOOKS like it should work, but I've been caught out by that before (e.g. Veritas Mk I honing guide vs. the Mk II which I now have).

I was just checking prices before the Sydney WWW show (all the better to judge any 'discounts' on offer....), and note that Carbatec's price for the BU jointer isn't far off the Lee Valley price. There's only about $40 in it at a 0.85 A$/US$ exchange rate, and that's without any allowance for freight. Plus, it stands a better chance of getting to the shed in one piece if purchased locally

Originally Posted by Mr Brush

Michael - changing the subject slightly, I know what you mean about flat surfaces sliding around during glue up. For me that's one of the BIG benefits of the domino machine; even if the edges have plenty of surface area for glue, I'll put a couple of dominoes in just to accurately register the two pieces. With this done (on the tight fitting domino setting) you can then concentrate on clamping to provide uniform pressure along the glue line without having to worry about the parts sliding around and out of alignment.

Just curious - has anyone tried the fence attachment for the Veritas BU Jointer (shown earlier in this thread)?? Does it work as intended, or is it one of the very small percentage of Veritas products that ALMOST work?

yep, or biscuits I suppose if you are poor

Tiger you can borrow my 90mm wide #7 when you come to joint those 40mm boards back to back.

Cheers
Michael