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  1. #1
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    Default Polishing Metal - Record 405 resto - questions on process

    Hi enthusiasts.

    I have been given, by infinite good luck and incredible generosity by Homey, a Record 405. (Thanks dude!!!)

    Now, it wasn't the most pristine thing (and this was admitted before hand) but it has come to a new welcome home and I'd like to make it sssseeeeexxxxy.

    It has had a few good photos of the "before" taken and Ive disassembled it to the individual pieces. I'll post these soon. It is a VERY NICE bit of kit!

    My question is down to polishing metal.

    Ive done a few blades and I cant seem to budge some of the blush and/or original machining marks. I know little of metals and the How To of polishing.

    This is what Ive done so far:

    - flattened and removed the rust off the blades with a 240 grit Japanese wet stone.
    - used 320, 600 and 1200 wet and dry on a flat bit of thick MDF
    - moved to wet stones of 1000, 4000 and 6000.

    They are fairly sharp, but that wasnt my target yet.

    As I said, there are some marks on there that never seem to fade or go away no matter what I do. Is it possible that these large diameter circular ridges are somehow some kind of pouring/forging/pressing artefact? Are the "blushes" that are seen simply due to my stones and/or technique?

    Whats with the two different metals? All of the blades show this light/dark separation once polished a bit. Its in exactly the same place on all of them.

    One thing Ive noticed is that the metals really love W&D sandpaper, but NOT the Japanese stones.

    All advice welcome.


    The "back"...

    back.jpg back finish (1).jpg back finish (2).jpg

    The "front"...

    front.jpg front finish (1).jpg front finish (2).jpg

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  3. #2
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    Default

    Here is a bar I cleaned up. Nice!

    I'll hit it with some 2000 grit W&D (when I get it) and some toothpaste (Ive no metal polish!).

    It was the very worst one (other photos soon) and it cleaned up quite nicely.

    bars.jpg

  4. #3
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    Default

    and for those that may express the vaguest of interest, here are some other shots. Ive not yet started the restore yet.

    I plan on cleaning it utterly, then polishing the steel shiny bits and timber things, then painting the aluminium (?... perhaps even magnesium) parts with a black enamel I have.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  5. #4
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    Some good news then some bad news then you will hate me.,
    Then your hands will turn grey an hurt, then you start to get exited!!!.
    Heavy scratches start, with 120 wet an dry used wet,a little washing up liquid helps, just a few a drops in say 1 little of warm water(because cold water sucks).
    You then use every grit size up to,when you really start getting bored after the intally boredom period,
    Are you getting this yet !!!!.
    The “sexy will start to appear after about 2500 wet an dry,
    But remember your using every grit size no SHORT CUTS.
    Yes that’s means all the numbers in order I’m not going to write them here
    120,180,240,300,320 up to I think I have 5000 in my workshop,
    See I told you would hate me,
    It really does take that much work if you want a mirror finish,
    But you can bail out any time once the HATE really takes hold.

    Cheers Matt.

  6. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simplicity View Post
    But you can bail out any time once the HATE really takes hold.
    I think you underestimate my ability to vigorously engage in tediously pointless and repetitive tasks!

    Looks like I'll need to go out to the warehouse and get my sandpaper boxes. Nothing here

  7. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by woodPixel View Post
    I think you underestimate my ability to vigorously engage in tediously pointless and repetitive tasks!

    Looks like I'll need to go out to the warehouse and get my sandpaper boxes. Nothing here
    You should go work in paint shop
    Sand sand sand sanding,
    O yes more sanding today how exiting,


    One other hint if you can, sand with say 120 grit when you go to 180 go diagonal opposite if you can,
    They way you can start too see when your scratch marks are canceling the previous one ,
    If that makes sense,??
    Also little blocks of soft rubber say 20/30mm by 20 mm ish by 30/40 mm ish high make great little sanding blocks.

    Cheers Matt.

  8. #7
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    Nice pickup.
    I'm not sure where you are planning on applying paint.
    These were all plated planes. Originally in nickel and when nickel was banned in the UK, due to war shortages, was replaced by "rustless plating".
    It is believed this is cadmium plating.
    Cadmium isn't very good for you - so you may want to lay off the heavy abrasives on the body and stick to polish.

    Record No. 405 Multi-Plane - Record Planes

  9. #8
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    Oh, Ive pleeenty of panel and paint experience. Lot and lots

    I was just thinking with the metal that it must have been weird. I went back and did the 80, 120, 180, 320, 400, 600, 800, 1000, 1200 thing and its still the same. Will add pictures. What very odd is the water seems hydrophobic on the front shiny part of the blade, but not so on the darker back part. I used dish detergent too

    I did the rods and they turned out pretty neat. Pix attached.

    Will get some higher grits tomorrow.

    Good point on the cadmium Hi-Roller. The box label does say "rustless plating".

    IMG_20191112_203228.jpg IMG_20191112_204930.jpg

  10. #9
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    WP, What I can see on at least one of the pics of the blade in the first post are machining marks, without question. These are usually pretty shallow, so it indicates you haven't taken that much off despite your incipient RSI. This matches my own experience of repairing pitted blades, it takes something approaching forever to get them flat and polished.

    Cleaning up pitted blades is not a job for the faint of heart, as Matt sez - it's just damned hard yakka. I have never enjoyed it! You may be better at using abrasive papers than I am, but for me, they are a sure way to get rounded blades & I avoid them like the plague, even though they seem to offer a quick fix. I stick with solid media like diamond plates and well-maintained water or oil stones, which may seem slower but are much better at keeping surfaces truly flat. Even on solid media, the coarser grits will cause duffing of edges, due to the swarf & shed grit that builds up in front of the steel as it's pushed in any direction. This is exacerbated with paper-based media because the paper also curls up slightly in front of the blade.

    Apart from knocking the worst of the rust off blade backs so they slide on their bed easily, I sure wouldn't be worrying about prettying that part up - you've enough on your plate without worrying about the non-functional surfaces!

    The colour change indicates either that only the bottom part of the blade is hardened & tempered (typical on pre-WW2 blades) or they are laminated (tool steel on the business end, mild steel on the notched end) - I don't know anything about 405 history and which may be the case with your plane...

    Cheers,
    IW

  11. #10
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    I restored a Pemuvar plane which is similar to the unit you have.

    Inheritance- more planes

    Lots of corrosion.
    i pulled it apart and gave it all a soak in vinegar then a rub over with steel wool than a light oiling. Next update the main body plus other bits got cleaned again in acetone then waxed.
    The main rods got a work over with 1200 W&D and oiled. The single blade got the diamond plate treatment up to 5000 then oiled.
    As you can see, some of the plating has hone but it adds to the patina- that’s my story anyway

  12. #11
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    Between your pics and the crappy phone I'm looking at them on I can't really tell. If you have (and you say you have done lots of sanding) gone thru the grits, removing one lot of grit marks after the other, then the "blush" may be blueing that occurs when the metal is overheated from aggressive grinding, in which case they should be at the grinding line/bevel, bevel and you can regrind past them. If the marks are from factory grinding of the flattening the blade stage of manufacture, essentially a grit mark, then instead of abrading them out if they are too deep, either ignore them or investigate the "ruler trick"/putting a small back bevel on the front of the blade to meet up with the bevel on the back. If they are machining marks the scratches should show a curve. Scratches on the rear of the blade don't matter, as the bevel will be polished, and that is what will form your polished edge. On the front side, yeah, it kinda matters, but how much?. As much as I am a sharpening fanatic, scratches on the front won't matter as with a combination plane the level of anal retentive sharpening won't matter as the surface it creates will in most cases will not show. Those grit marks/machining marks will affect your sharpness 0.5%, don't worry about it. If it's a heat effect from overzealous grinding, grind it out. As I said, I can't tell from the image I see, but pic 2, when I zoom in, shows machining marks on the front of the blade. Consider the effort to grind them out to create a new, polished flat front (heaps and heaps of time, literally most of a working day) versus a small back bevel, versus 'does it really actually matter's, versus "how many times will you use that blade to create an a) visible surface, b) one you won't sand or scrape. My 2 cents worth, as a sharpening fanatic, I wouldn't care. If it were a smoother blade and I somehow wouldn't want to sand/scrape, I would put a back bevel on instead of flattering it all out. In reality, for a combo plane, I wouldn't care less. In reality, the blokes that used it as a tool to make a quid, they wouldn't have given a toss. They got paid for pieces produced, they didn't go home an do the Zen master endless sharpening routine, no money in that at all.
    Last edited by Clinton1; 13th November 2019 at 09:25 PM. Reason: Last sentence
    Cheers,
    Clinton

    "Use your third eye" - Watson

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/clinton_findlay/

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