Thread: Quality of 21st Century English Stanley planes

Zitan

That's a very exhaustive piece of work. Well done and thank you for the effort you've put into it.

It is obvious that you would like to see Stanley re-consider their position and revert to the standards for which they once were justifiably renowned. So would I.

I reckon that if they conducted some genuine market research amongst dedicated woodworkers - and this BB would be a good starting point - they would find that the potential market for a quality Stanley plane is perhaps bigger than they might imagine.

Col

This is a good point.

Who are Stanley making their tools for?

The DIY/MDF makeover market wouldn't have a clue how to use a handplane and they are certainly not going to pay, what is still - for that market - a reasonably hefty price for one, eg $130 for a #5.

How many chippies use hand planes these days I wonder?

My guess would be that they would reach for the Makita before the Stanley.

Meanwhile, Clifton, Lee Valley and of course LN are eating Stanley's lunch.

However, having said all that, if Stanley did start making quality tools again, they would IMO, be the same price as the aforementioned manufacturers.

Craig

Quality is remembered.....well after price is long forgotten.

Originally Posted by craigb

This is a good point.

Who are Stanley making their tools for? Craig

Who indeed as the planes on the shelves are practically unusable IMHO.

Would you buy a lawn mower than wont cut the grass. No use buying a plane which wont plane wood. Neighbours got one I called the wallaby, but he named it the pogo stick. I worked on it for about 10-12 hours and it will now take a fair shaving but the blade is garbage. If my time is worth $65.00/hr than its a very average $800.00 plane.:eek:

Roll on the car boot sales...and then...its the Dark Side :eek: :eek:

Oh no, what am I saying!! I'm going out the garden shed to check up on my power tools.

Cheers

Originally Posted by E. maculata

Quality is remembered.....well after price is long forgotten.

And the sour taste of a "lemon" remains long after the joy of a "bargain" has faded.

Mick

Zitan

That is a great piece. A reference piece.

Unfortunately, the guys at Stanley are unlikely to read it with any interest. I fear that they are going the way of Record. The profit margin is just not there. Anyway, if we are going to get what they are prepared to serve up at present, then better they stop producing handplanes - because they are an abomination and will put potential new users right off. Fortunately, Stanley made a lot of good planes, and they are out there. And it is our duty to get them and keep them safe for the True Believers!

Regards from Perth

Derek

Originally Posted by derekcohen

Fortunately, Stanley made a lot of good planes, and they are out there. And it is our duty to get them and keep them safe for the True Believers!

Yairs, and away from F#@*^%# collectors, who
a) drive up the prices. :mad:
b) lock them up in glass cupboards where they rust quietly away pining for some real work!

Zitan - is the bit about "lacquer bacteria" for real??? I've often noticed the little zig-zag tracks you get in a lot of tool steels, but I thought it was just corrosion of elements of the alloys.
Now you've got me really curious - can you direct me to some further info??
Cheers,

To my best knowledge, as an ex Stanley employee, Stanley England products were produced in Sheffield at least up until the mid 90's but at that point the whole company had it's back to the wall and started to rationalise their production sites. Places like Stanley South America ( Mexico & Brasil from memory) were to become the centers as well as Taiwan and China. Cost, Cost, Cost - need I say any more. :confused:

I have about 6 Hand Planes and a number of spares - blades, caps etc all dating from prior to the 80's back to about the 40's. Wouldn't swap em for anything - they still get fired up when I have a particularly contankerous grained piece to finish but the jointer gets a fair workout instead now.

From an informed True Believer to others who might be interested

Jamie

This is another example of every dog having it's day. Once they ruled the plane world and now their past good reputation is starting to fade.

Not much different to the past empires (Romans) and will no doubt hold true to current empires. Microsoft .........

Originally Posted by craigb

This is a good point.

Who are Stanley making their tools for?

The DIY/MDF makeover market wouldn't have a clue how to use a handplane and they are certainly not going to pay, what is still - for that market - a reasonably hefty price for one, eg $130 for a #5.

How many chippies use hand planes these days I wonder?

My guess would be that they would reach for the Makita before the Stanley.

Meanwhile, Clifton, Lee Valley and of course LN are eating Stanley's lunch.

However, having said all that, if Stanley did start making quality tools again, they would IMO, be the same price as the aforementioned manufacturers.

Craig

This chippy still uses hand planes. I carry the #5 I purchased new, back in '73 all the time. I throw in my #7 when I do a 'lock-up' for planing external doors when necessary and I throw in my #4 when I do a 'fix'. The Makita gets used most of all because most of the planing a carpenter does is eventually hidden behind brickwork or plaster or under flooring.

I have however found it quite heartening that when I encounter young blokes on a job, most are keen to get their hand planes tuned and sharpened and to then put them to use, but only after I've let them use one of mine so that they can experience a properly tuned plane with a sharp iron.

Cheers..

Mark.

The question still hasnt been answered/pondered though.

How is buying the $100 genuine stanley #4's at bunnings? If you were a "Changing rooms" devotee, you'd go for the $29 supertool plane if for some reason you thought you needed one. (They actually work good for trimming mdf "endgrain") $100 is simply too much for the DIYer when you can get a drill for $19.95


For the beginner WW, even a precursory bit of research would lead you away from these. That leaves beginner woodworkers who havent done *any* research or those who impulse buy one because they'd like to get into WW?

Given that the new ones are crap, the economist in me starts to wonder what will happen to the old plane market. Firstly you have the decreasing use of handtools forcing demand and prices down, whilst on the other hand it's a second hand good and hence a limited resource. Will the supply of restorable old planes eventually run out? Just like eventually a trendy inner city suburb will have no unrenovated houses left.

hmmm..

Originally Posted by LineLefty

(They actually work good for trimming mdf "endgrain") ..

What the???
You better stop sniffing the glue.

Al

Originally Posted by duckman

This chippy still uses hand planes. I carry the #5 I purchased new, back in '73 all the time. I throw in my #7 when I do a 'lock-up' for planing external doors when necessary and I throw in my #4 when I do a 'fix'. The Makita gets used most of all because most of the planing a carpenter does is eventually hidden behind brickwork or plaster or under flooring.

I have however found it quite heartening that when I encounter young blokes on a job, most are keen to get their hand planes tuned and sharpened and to then put them to use, but only after I've let them use one of mine so that they can experience a properly tuned plane with a sharp iron.

Cheers..

Mark.

Mark,

I wasn't meaning to slight chippys. As you say, most of a carpenter's work isn't seen, plus we all know that time = money. I was just wondering, if Stanley aren't selling to A) Tradsmen or B) DIY folk, then who the hell are their market?

Perhaps it's people like me who are old enough to remember when Stanley was a byword for quality and naively assumed that that quality endured.

Well if that's the case, then that market isn't going to survive more than one tool purchase.

Craig

Originally Posted by craigb

....... I was just wondering, if Stanley aren't selling to A) Tradsmen or B) DIY folk, then who the hell are their market? .......
Craig

You've answered the question of course, they are marketing their product with input from their marketing gurus and accountants and ignoring their quality control and engineering staff (if they still have any). Like you said, they're banking on their once good name, but that can't last forever.

Mick