Thread: Spokeshaves & Drawknives

I use a draw knife in a normal woodworking vice without too much problem. I don't think a draw knife needs alot of skill. The main thing is working down hill so your not gouging in to the end grain same as you would with a spoke shave. It is one of my favourite tools it can be very delicate or very course depending on how aggressive you are with it. I tend to do most shaping with the draw knife then refine with a spokeshave.

I use a drawknife for quick hog work, e.g. taking the long edges of a square piece of wood before turning, or as code4pay says the pre-spokeshave work.

Do not under estimate the ability of a sharp drawknife to do fine work. It takes skill and a light tough however a drawknife can take very fine clean cuts. A drawknife is much the same as a wooden spokeshave. A drawknife can dip into the cut, so you need to be careful not to dive into the cut. Using a strong skew angle to the draw keeps more of the blade on the work. Also have a dead flat back will prevent you dipping in the cut.

Brian Boggs did all his early work only with a drawknife. Only latter did Boggs make his own spokeshaves.

My understanding has always been that a drawknife is, on a fundamental level, intended for more coarse work than a spokeshave. I think it also excels at use in green wood, because you can more easily remove some serious material.

You probably CAN pull off a sub-thou shaving with a drawknife, just like you CAN joint a board with a block plane, but that's not the ideal tool, hence the spokeshave. You'll probably find a drawknife in the tool kit of a log framer, but you wouldn't find a spokeshave. Likewise, you're unlikely to see someone using a drawknife to make finishing cuts on Chippendale style furniture. Unless you just possess some kind of mutant-level hand eye coordination, then it seems virtually impossible to have the same kind of control over shaving thickness with a drawknife, where your hands are 8+ inches apart, as you would with a spokeshave, where your hands are mere centimeters apart and there is a sole.

So I guess if a bench plane is like a mechanically controlled chisel, then a spokeshave is kind of like a mechanically controlled drawknife, maybe?

I see no reason why it couldn't be used in a bench vise. You mean as opposed to a shave horse? As long as you can hold it well enough to handle the potentially high levels of torque created by taking large cuts with the drawknife it should be fine. With the right sized stock, depending on what you wanted to achieve, you may even be able to use it between dogs.

Cheers,
Luke

drawknives and spokeshaves both require two hands on the tool, so some form of workholding is required. a bench vise is just fine for that.

the most fundamental difference between the two is that a spokeshave has a sole, and thus a mouth. the spokeshave controls it's own shaving- the drawknife is a naked bladed tool.

there are small drawknives and large spokeshaves, but they are the exception rather than the rule. drawknives generally have edges from say 6" to 12" long while spokeshaves have edges from 1" to 4" long.

I think the spokeshave was invented by frustrated drawknife drivers. True in the hands of a master a drawknife can do fine work but I know my limitations. I have destroyed bits of wood in one swipe, so the drawknife for me is a roughing tool. Same argument could be the hand plane V the side axe or adze. It takes a bit more skill with an open blade.
Regards
John

Hi John

this video posted by Derek a few weeks ago will give you an idea of what capable hands and a sharp draw knife can do with the right sort of wood.

Originally Posted by derekcohen

As to using one in a bench vice -- holding the work in a way that both allows a controlled cut and resists the pulling and pushing forces associated with the cut while not damaging the stock can be challenging.

So.... Easy .

Thanks Ian for resurrecting Derek's video. (I seem to recall that Derek has one of those monstrous coopers jointers that he made himself)

I was there helping Ruedi at times when he was squeezing those staves together. A really good demonstration of spokeshave and drawknife. I think it helps enormously to have whatever timber that was. The fact he did so much with a pocket knife is indicative of how easy it was to work.

However, I wouldn't want to detract from his skill. Amazing.

Does that answer all your questions Johnno?

I made up a drawknife for my son about ten years ago. It was only about a year ago that I realised I wanted one of my own. I have two now. I think it is one of those tools (or in my case two of those tools) that if you have one (or two), you start embarking on projects just so you can use it. It is very useful in it's own right for quickly hogging off corners and in my case anything that does not need precision.

Regards
Paul

Originally Posted by John Saxton

Just want to open discussion on what the individual perspective is between using either the Spokeshave or the Drawknive or both comparatively if it has so been done by someone.?
I have only occasionally used a spokeshave (I do have quite a few) but never a drawknife ,can a drawknife be used with any degree of success in a bench vise.
My thoughts are that perhaps some fair degree of skill might be needed to use a drawknife ,would this differ from the spokeshave?

Cheers

Having again watched Ruedi wielding his drawknives and spoke shave I'll offer the following ...

Ruedi uses his drawknives as both roughing and shaping tools, and his spokeshave more for smoothing (in bench plane terms) than shaping.

It's impossible to tell from the video, but looking at what section of the straight knife is used for different cuts, it's possible that the bevel on one of Ruedi's knives varies across the blade -- something that is not easy to do with a sharpening jig.


familiarity with a tool and its capabilities will significantly effect how it is both used and the tasks the tool is used for.
Recently I needed to create a 45° bevel on the edges of some long plywood strips. My familiarity with, and comfort using, led me to commence the task with a block plane -- which was much too slow. Switching to a spoke shave, both sped up the task and allowed better control of the angle than I could achieve with a block plane.
My point being that experience using a tool will strongly influence your perception of a tool's capabilities.


the following is a supposition
perhaps drawknife use in Australia has been strongly influenced by the propensity of Australia timbers to contain interlocked grain making them hard to very hard to work with hand tools.
However, I see some similarity between a drawknife and a card scraper -- both tools can cut like a plane blade, but both have a "mouth" that is infinitely wide. The control of shaving thickness and tear-out then comes down to operator skill.

I was told many, many years ago that when I was using a traditional wooden spokeshave .... I was actually using a mini drawknife with an optional guide.
Bit of an ah-ha moment
I've grown to love the control of the bevel up, as opposed to the bevel down, iron variety.
I've let a few brass wear plates in to old beech and boxwood shaves in various curves, and flat plates. However with a little practice, and with sharp blades the curved ones are easily controlled in concave cutting, flat or convex surfaces, irrespective of how much extra curvature I made in the brass plates. For concave work, I just go for the one with more curve in it than I might need, and wing it.
It works for me...
Cheers,
Peter

Would like to thank all the respondents for their informative responses to endorse some thoughts I have on the question of Spokeshaves & Drawknives.
I have a small collection of spokeshaves Cliftons ,Lie Nielsens Boggs Stanley to mention a few but have never tried or wondered whether a drawknife would be an advantage.
Living in a rural area south of Perth on bush acreage we get a a bit of windfall of trees ect especially of recent days ,possibly tonight as well which lends me to thinking how a draw knife can be of use here.
Have seen the shavehorse in use with knife but do not want to go to this means ,would rather use in vice for primarily reduction of material for spindle work on the lathe was my thoughts.
I think in the right hands the knife could be either rather agricultural of more refined with respect to any planing action and the angle of attack either hogging or light shave.
I have a couple on order. 1 straight blade ,1 curved blade look forward to a workout with these.

Originally Posted by John Saxton

Would like to thank all the respondents for their informative responses to endorse some thoughts I have on the question of Spokeshaves & Drawknives.
I have a small collection of spokeshaves Cliftons ,Lie Nielsens Boggs Stanley to mention a few but have never tried or wondered whether a drawknife would be an advantage.
Living in a rural area south of Perth on bush acreage we get a a bit of windfall of trees ect especially of recent days ,possibly tonight as well which lends me to thinking how a draw knife can be of use here.
Have seen the shavehorse in use with knife but do not want to go to this means ,would rather use in vice for primarily reduction of material for spindle work on the lathe was my thoughts.
I think in the right hands the knife could be either rather agricultural of more refined with respect to any planing action and the angle of attack either hogging or light shave.
I have a couple on order. 1 straight blade ,1 curved blade look forward to a workout with these.

Are you getting Lie Nielsens? DO you have the straight or curved Boggs spokeshave? Heading to the Brisbane TWW show this weekend and plan to have a bit of indulgence.

Hi all,
I Really love both my Drawknives & Spokeshaves.
I have about 20+Knives & approx. the same in Spokeshaves, but all of my SS have the Brass Plate. One thing amazes me that some of you have SS all with makers names, where as mine have no names at all.
Have just finished making 15 Walking Trek Staff's for both women & men.
Sizes between 46 & 55 inches long. They were all cleaned up with both sets of tools then sanded down & finished with Neil's Traditional Wax.
A few had a small compass inserted in the top.
I almost always used the Knives Bevel up.
Found it worked quite a bit better that way, then finished off with the spokeshave.

Originally Posted by John Saxton

Have seen the shavehorse in use with knife but do not want to go to this means ,would rather use in vice for primarily reduction of material for spindle work on the lathe was my thoughts.

like many traditional means of work holding, shave horses have evolved to maximise of the efficiency of the user's body when using a draw knife. I suggest that if your interest is sufficient to invest in more than one a draw knife you really need to consider building a shave horse so that the work is held "correctly" in relation to the main muscle groups you will be using