Thread: Interesting rasp

Not a terribly good picture, Martin, but it looks like it could be a #49 patternmaker's rasp. If that's what it is you'll notice it is a bit thinner than a "regular" rasp of the same size. There were (are) two models, the #50 is the same size but has finer teeth.

The #49 was my go-to rasp before I discovered hand-stitched rasps, they cut as aggressively, but left a better surface than run-of-the-mill rasps of similar tooth size. Cost more, but were worth the extra imo. The hand-stitched rasps are a step up again, but the law of diminishing returns cuts in savagely - you pay a lot more for that little extra....

Cheers,

PS. I googled and they are both still available (made in Brazil now, not the US) if you want to compare with yours....

Originally Posted by IanW

Cost more, but were worth the extra imo.

Cheers,

PS. I googled and they are both still available (made in Brazil now, not the US) if you want to compare with yours....

Ian

And still costing a pretty penny at US$59.00 (Nearly A$90 before any taxes, import duty or shipping if you wanted one here!). But not as much as the Auriou hand stitched rasps starting at US$150.00 and going up to US$238. Excuse me while I wipe the water from my eyes.

Regards
Paul

PS: The Aurious are a little better priced in Oz, but not much.

Ian

Additional Photos. Not sure it's a 49/50 patter makers rasp. The stitch patterns I can see on the net look different.

Also added a comparison file- the Nicholson is pretty smooth. The a couple of chips but the stitching is significantly coarser.

Do not know the grain - the hand stitched rasps used fell off the ark.






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Hi Paul


As alternative to taking out a mortgage - these rasps are terrific- Half Round File Rasp HR01 / HR02 / HR03 / HR04 / HR05 by Hardware for

No prestige though, I am afraid..


Regards

Nicholson also makes farriers rasps for horse hoof work. Those are crazy coarse compared to the familiar cabinet rasps and wood files. They can be pretty handy when you're sculpting foam. Not much use on wood, though.

Originally Posted by MartinCH

.... Not sure it's a 49/50 patter makers rasp. The stitch patterns I can see on the net look different.......

Martin, iirc, they used to stamp "49" or "50" on them, but I see no other stamp than Nicholson USA in your pic so it may not be a 49. I wouldn't compare stitch patterns too closely, the Brazilian Nicholsons could easily be different from the USA-made rasps. Unfortunately, I don't have an old USA-made 49 to show you - used the last one up 15 years or more ago...

Cheers,

PS. It seems like there is indeed a big difference between old & new #49 stitch patterns - have a read of this. It's from a few years back, & maybe the Brazilians have lifted their game since then, but I would still expect a different stitch pattern from a different factory who would likely have a different way of introducing 'randomness' into the stitch pattern...

Ian

I would expect the Brazilian product to resemble the original Nicholsons in shape and name only. Even if the quality has improved, I doubt the artist would cut them the same.

Martin

Thanks for the alternative rasps. There are quite a few alternative products out there, although Auriou and Liogier are probably in a class of their own. I don't have any Auriou examples, but I do have some Liogiers, which I purchased quite a while ago before they were considered as a substitute for the gold standard. If I had to replace them today, I would need to sell a kidney. The big advantage both those companies' products have is the wide range of styles and even wider range of grains.

A little while ago I bought the Bahco and the Hart pictured below quite cheaply ($10 to $15?: can't remember now). They are passable for the money but nothing like the hand stitched rasps such as your Nicholson.

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The Bahco has a file on the other side as you can see in the last pic. The Hart is round on one side and flat on the other and the teeth do not go right to the edge.

I also have some Tomé Fetiera hand stitched rasps that were bought as NOS. I don't know if they still make rasps, particularly the hand stitched variety.

Regards
Paul

PS: Fetiera do still make hand stitched rasps: I looked them up.

Paul

Once brought a job lot of rasps at an auction for $40 cause there was some hand stitched files in the lot - including the one pictured.
As a consequence the number of rasps I have play with is a 100++.
Not decided on what to do with them. They could make interesting knives - the stitch pattern impression is interesting in a knife....
but likely I should put them onto market place and move them on..


In the bahco range this ones pretty nice as well.
Bahco Hand File Oberg Cut

Seems to widely available (have seen them at total tools) if twice the cost of the usual bahcos... the only issue id they are far both faces

There round versions of the Bahco style as well. The one in my kit are english and not sure they are manufactured, still.
But the Half Round Rasp File Japanese Iwasaki are similar and seem to well liked.




PS. The beyond tools rasps are IMO a match for hand stitched rasps, fast and smooth.

Originally Posted by Bushmiller

...... I would expect the Brazilian product to resemble the original Nicholsons in shape and name only. Even if the quality has improved, I doubt the artist would cut them the same......

Paul, I was 90% certain the Nicholsons are machine cut, but given the unreliability of my memory cells these days, I did a bit of selective googling to see if my memory IS correct. Here's what Joel's blog says:

"The Nickolson #49 and #50 patternmaker's rasps are two exceptions to the machine-made rule. They are the last gasp of Nicholson's line of top-quality, random-cut rasps. They are machine-made, but the machine in question is a special gizmo that, using extensive skilled operator control, allows for minute adjustment in the position of the teeth so that the resulting spacing is slightly random, like a hand-cut rasp. These rasps cut very fast and very smoothly....."

But you are on the right track in a way, because it would seem the machine operator has an important role in the process, so a form of hand-skill was involved in making them. I remember the uproar when the 49s were first made in Brazil - pictures of the 'new' rasps beside an old US-made version showed a pretty dismal effort at reproducing the original. I guess that was due to a not so skilled Brazilian at the controls..

Like you, I bought my set of Liogiers when the $ was a little more robust and my income was also robust. I don't foresee any hope of replacing them as they slowly die out unless a rich relative leaves me a pile of money but afaik, I don't have any of those, so cheaper alternatives will have to suffice. A couple get used sparingly & I reckon they'll see me out & probably still have useful life left in them after I run out of it. The ones that I most use, particularly the finer grains and particularly the couple of model-maker's rasps that have had a real pounding, are definitely coming to the end of their days. I have tried a couple of alternatives; I found an Italian-made version some years ago which is ok & does the job but it is a good way behind an equivalent Liogier I'm afraid.

I guess I have to accept that all good things come to an end eventually....

Cheers,

They're machine cut. Joel is down on the nicholsons, but the reality is you can get them other places, and often for low prices from someone selling nicholson stock online.

E.g., to compare taper saw files, the nicholson taper saw files are decent, but they aren't as good as they used to be. Where they get separated is on the upper end of saw hardness, but for a lot of things, they are fine to use and less than $2 per file now if you keep your eyes open.

Inflation adjusted cost of the US files would be at least $8 now, and they were decent.

I have a brazilian fifty rasp. I think it was about $27. They're weird compared to a hand cut rasp - the teeth are crowding each other and they're flatter and wider than most hand cut teeth with a rounder top profile vs. something more penetrating.

It's getting hard to say these days what's good and what's not. I think for $27, they're fine. I wouldn't want to give $50 for them, but I have zero interest in buying a western european rasp for $100 per, too, without a really good reason to buy one. By the time you get the rasps and rifflers you want as an amateur, where are you - $1000? And ignoring perhaps double cut coarse files that do a good job setting up for the final finish cut and can also be found clearance.

Joel's in a pickle, though - he's dealing with an often prissy helpless clientele who wants something perfect, even if they are only going to make test cuts with the tools they got and then go back to watching the wood whisperer or blacktail studios. If that's even a sizable fraction of the market, it cancels decent but not great products. And I guess if you're stuck selling those rasps at list or close to it, then it's also less sense.

Thought that I forgot to complete above - you can get machine made rasps from china that have hand cut style teeth - they're often yellow, and the shapes are weird, but they're good rasps.

Back to nicholson - can't comment on the rasp made here, but nicholson went from extra coarse "cabinet maker's rasps" that really were just kind of crude machine cut rasps and they were named like files, down to "smooth" cut. they're cheap if you buy them from a drop ship place here - about $15-$20, but a lot more from woodworking suppliers (big surprise there!). And as I'm thinking in the back of my mind about big french rasps that were $125 or so, highland has the largest aurious now - $202, so ...way off! $150 is for the smallest size and up from there.

Originally Posted by IanW

I don't foresee any hope of replacing them as they slowly die out unless a rich relative leaves me a pile of money but afaik, I don't have any of those, so cheaper alternatives will have to suffice. A couple get used sparingly & I reckon they'll see me out & probably still have useful life left in them after I run out of it. The ones that I most use, particularly the finer grains and particularly the couple of model-maker's rasps that have had a real pounding, are definitely coming to the end of their days. I have tried a couple of alternatives;

Ian

I remember Rob Streeper commenting on the Liogiers and saying that he didn't consider the rasps as "consumables." I pointed out at the time his usual timbers were likely a lot more forgiving than the Aussie timbers. I tend to use other rasps for initial removal of timber and resort to the Liogiers for the final finishing.

Regards
Paul