22nd Aug 2019, 08:07 PM #31
The material used in my pic was actually mild steel pipe (galvanised I think). It was simply polished up on a buffing wheel. The thickness of that was I think, 2.5mm. I can't check for the moment as I am away from home. However, this is much thicker than is really required, particularly in steel. I just used what came immediately to hand. In the past I have used brass, stainless steel and copper for ferrules and in those materials it would have been classified as tube and probably been about the 1.6mm Ian mentioned.
Unless you plan to hit a chisel with a steel club hammer anything from 1.6mm upwards is going to be more than adequate. I would also consider aluminium too. For that material I would look to recycling. baby strollers, ironing boards etc.etc.. Those sort of products can be a source of mild steel tubing too.
"Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"
22nd Aug 2019, 10:32 PM #32
Ian, George Weston and the other non-ferrus metal supplier whose name I've forgotten only stock material up to a 1.63mm wall thickness. I can't find any supplier that has a thicker wall. All my really old chisels have a thicker wall at the top of the ferrule, and they seem to be a v shaped wall, hence my comment about peening the top to a thicker wall at the top. I think that that shape stops the ferrule from dislodging when struck. I'd like brass ferrules, but I'm cautious about the wall thickness, thicker and I could remove material to get the shape that the old chisels have. New handles and brass ferrules would be different to the originals, and I'll put the originals aside for my kids to drool over in the future. I'm conflicted. Maybe I'll use steel pipe, that has a wider range of wall thickness. Still waiting to hear what was used on the forum, group buy, chisels. Aren't I sweating over the small stuff, but that's what old tool fools do. 😁
22nd Aug 2019, 10:35 PM #33
Bushmiller, thanks mate, greatly appreciated and that goes a long way to helping me clarifying the issue. I'll rethink the matter and remeasure the ferrules on my old chisels. Goodonya
22nd Aug 2019, 10:44 PM #34
Colin62, be careful mate, it's a slippery slope and when you get started, often it's just a wild and unending ride. But, damn, man, the ride is worth it! In the end you'll be bearded with the beard full of sawdust and wood chips, gibbering about modulus of rupture and advocating strongly for one method of sharpening vs the others and all kinds of cool and groovy stuff that very few other people understand. I'm one of those people, and, damn, I highly recommend it! 😁
23rd Aug 2019, 07:06 AM #35
Steel tube is cheaper & comes in a range of sizes. There are plenty of suppliers who'll cut short lengths for you...
Hoops on chisels can be a real pita. A hoop with tapered inner diameter might be more of a curse than a blessing. I have trouble getting hoops to stay put on the very hard woods I like to use, one or two always want to loosen in dry spells (like we are experiencing right now!). The most successful method I've found is to taper the handle so the hoop is forced on tighter & tighter as it's struck (explained in Dick's 'Titan' book), but even that fails sometimes. I think if you use a softer, more compressible wood, there's enough elasticity to take up the slack as it dries. That doesn't happen with Brigalow & Gidgee, but one lot I handles with some local Black Wattle has fared better..
23rd Aug 2019, 10:34 PM #36
Ian, I'm currently planning on using Spotted Gum is I can get it in the larger size I need for my big hands. Basically it's stair risers stock. There is enough availability that I can pick a 1/4 sawn piece. 300 X 50 is common stock. Do you have an opinion on other species that are reasonably available? And yeah, there is a wealth of differing opinions on the 'right way' to set ferrules so they don't bounce off on striking. I have my own opinion, but time will tell. I may end up with a disaster, or achieve success. Time will tell. A mate that makes knives is telling me to pin the ferrules, but I don't think that's 100% necessary. If I stuff it up, I can always pin them as a "make good" arrangement.
24th Aug 2019, 09:57 AM #37
Clinton, Spotted gum would be a very good choice for durability, I think. Titan used Tasmanian blue gum (E. globulus) which was perhaps driven by availability as much as any special properties, but they probably aren't all that far apart. (Edit: they also used Myrtle Beech for the 'lighter duty' chisels, & that's at least as tough as northern hemisphere Beech & Birch).
I favour the Acacias and Casuarinas for their decorative properties as as well as extreme toughness, but as I mentioned, it can be difficult to get ferrules & hoops to stay on the harder & denser woods. Because the wood is so hard, it doesn't compress much when you drive the metal onto the wood, so just a little shrinkage in dry weather & you've got a loose hoop or ferrule. The hard wood also doesn't mushroom over the hoop readily, allowing the hoop to slip up if it gets loose. I've given up on hoops on my chisel handles other than those that cop a real hammering. My set of She-oak handled BE chisels that I use almost every day show no sign of wear after about 10 years since I re-handled them, so I don't think I'm going to have to worry about any of those before I leave them to the next owner...
From my own experience (and also discussed by Dick in his Titan book), pins are as much of a problem as a cure. They either simply break as the hoop is driven on further during use, or split the wood. On not-too-thick hoops & ferules, a deep dimple made with a sharp centre-punch can lock them on, but with thick metal such as you are contemplating using, you can't get enough of a dimple to be of any use. Glueing them on with epoxy is also mostly a waste of time on hoops - the glue cracks or lets go the first time it's struck. OK for loose ferrules, though....
24th Aug 2019, 05:23 PM #38SENIOR MEMBER
- Join Date
- Aug 2012
I have picked up thicker walled brass pipe on eBay au. Usually comes in 200 -300 mm sections.
25th Aug 2019, 03:13 PM #39
I measured a few bits of tube. The brass stock was close to 1mm thick and that has been ample for most purposes so I don't think looking for something thicker than 1.6mm will be really necessary.
A little while back I picked up some discarded compression pipe fittings. These are in the form of nuts but internally are round and threaded threaded. It occured to me that these could be easily used as a ferrule and would not want to slide over or damage the timber and this was why I had kept them.
P1050332 (Medium).JPGP1050333 (Medium).JPG
As you can see, they come in a range of sizes, but availability depends on what was lying around on the floor or in the waste skip at work.
P1050329 (Medium).JPGP1050330 (Medium).JPGP1050331 (Medium).JPG
The handle could easily be shaped to bring the timber through the hole in the top just for aesthetics. The thread could be utilised in securing the "ferrule" via a slight interference fit, possibly in conjunction with epoxy glue. I have not put this to the test yet so all is theoretical.
"Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"
25th Aug 2019, 07:46 PM #40
Thanks Ross and Paul, I'll keep my eye out for that thicker stuff if I decide to go down that route.
25th Aug 2019, 07:49 PM #41
Ian, I'm happy with Spotty gum because it'll be pretty indestructible, but that might also be a weakness as it'll resist mushrooming, which keeps ferrules tight.... Swings and roundabouts.
26th Aug 2019, 08:49 AM #42
4th Nov 2019, 02:53 PM #43
Did my word turning course. I've not been doing much ww, transient lifestyle, stuff in storage, different kinda life... but I'm waiting on a spotted gum load to come into the timber yard, about 2 weeks wait. It'll be 42 x 190 x 1800. I'll saw that down and turn chisel handles down at the local men's she'd. I'll finally get handles that fit my orangutan sized mitts, propably look as unbalanced and oversized as hell, but they will be comfy. The difficult part will be taking old handles off, tagging them and id'ing the chisel blades so I can later match up original handles to old blades. I made 2 school desks for the kuds recently, and used tung oil on them, probable do the same on the chisel handles, with a cloth run over the handle to get hot and oxidize the oil. Now I've really got to firm up the setting technique for the ferrules, but I'm thinking that timber moves and swells/contracts, so if the ferrule won't stay fitted, swelling the end grain with tung oil might help. When you don't do something you love for a while, the anticipation build up so much. Absolutely ungainly, oversized, fitted to my hands handles coming up.
4th Nov 2019, 06:51 PM #44
Clinton, making tools fit your hand has a very long tradition; no need to apologise, just do what makes 'em right for you!
The ferrules on the bottom of the handle are usually not too big a problem if your wood is dry. I turn the spigot about .5-.75mm oversize, then bang them on. This will often pick up wood shavings, which can jam and prevent the ferrule from seating nicely against the shoulder you've prepared so I always make sure there's a decent chamfer inside the ferrule, and also use the point of the skew to rum a small groove beside the shoulder. That allows any "spare" wood that gets picked up as the ferrule is driven on somewhere to go.
The hoop (the top bit) is another matter. We had the discussion a few pages ago about how to get the damn things to stay on, but some will always find a way to come loose...
4th Nov 2019, 07:40 PM #45
By Big A in forum WOODTURNING - GENERALReplies: 4Last Post: 13th Dec 2016, 09:23 AM
By vermontscroller in forum SCROLLERS FORUMReplies: 6Last Post: 14th Feb 2013, 04:25 PM
By busby in forum DESIGNS & PLANS FOR PROJECTSReplies: 0Last Post: 14th Feb 2013, 04:15 PM
By madcraft in forum HOMEMADE TOOLS AND JIGS ETC.Replies: 13Last Post: 11th Aug 2008, 02:16 AM
By oges in forum SCROLLERS FORUMReplies: 6Last Post: 21st Jun 2003, 10:54 PM