Thread: Repairing plane handles

Hmm, you got yourself a bit of a problem there my lad! I assume the original thread in the sole was stripped and some ham-fisted type decided to "fix" it. I can't see how he could've got the angle off so much, nor why he punched the new thread right through, but my guess would be he didn't have a bottoming tap so found it necessary to drill through the sole to accommodate a regular tap to form enough full threads.

The 'ideal' solution would be to fill the hole with weld and re-drill & re-tap the stud hole at the correct angle, but that would need someone who is competent at welding cast iron & has a pretty decent machine setup. Done improperly, you could end up with a badly distorted &/or cracked body, so it's not something for uncle Joe & his trusty cheap stick welder to tackle! The studs are 7/32" 20 tpi, which is not a size most people would have in their kits, either.

For the less well-endowed with skill & gear, there are two possible approaches I can think of, off the cuff. One is to look into repairing it with a 'helicoil', but I doubt you would get a helicoil with the 7/32 20tpi thread Stanley used. That would probably still not solve the wrong angle problem, either so I think that isn't a viable option.

Approach #2 would be to drill out the existing hole & tap for a bolt of about 8-9.5mm. This could be screwed tightly into the hole (locked in with Loctite), then cut a little proud & peened each side (very carefully!) so that when filed flush the hole should be close to invisible. You could then set up & drill & tap the standard size hole inside your repair 'plug'. You will need a bottomiing tap to tap the new hole if you don't want to repeat our previous hero's style. This is probably the best solution for someone with minimal gear & a modicum of metalworking skill.

But someone with more advanced metalworking knowledge/skill may have a much better solution for you....
Cheers,
Ian

I’ve got a falcon 5 1/2 that must have been owned by the same butcher. Mine had a poorly made handle with a countersunk head bolt that looked like it was made from a cup head bolt that had been shaped on a grinder. The sole of the plane had been drilled through and countersunk, with the bolt going right through the handle with a nut and washer at the top. The embarrassing part is that I used this plane for almost fifty years as it was and only corrected it last year! I wish I had taken some photos beforehand.
My fix was almost as if Ian had instructed me. I set the plane up in my drill press to get the angle right to drill and tap an 8mm thread. I then made an insert with an M8 external thread and the correct thread inside for the handle bolt (can’t recall what that was) I used loctite to keep the insert in place and then filled the ugly countersunk hole in the base with epoxy and cast iron fillings. As luck would have it, I did take photos of the result. YES, I could have done a better job finishing the bottom, but it’s a user and always has been.
EDIT: I just reread Ian’s rely and of course he remembers the correct thread.

43342C3A-02A9-4D9C-8C7E-97482B961896.jpg

416AA190-5C2A-4FAC-A7F2-614D7CBFD612.jpg

What can I say, Picko, other than "Great minds...."

Your solution was safer than trying to peen the "filler" screw into invisibility, but I reckon it could be done. However, let's be practical, the hole in the sole would have absolutely zero effect on the plane's function, so take my obsessively neatnik attempt at hiding the damage with a large grain of salt.

Did you mange to replicate the original thread with the correct tap? I have wished I had a tap & die for that thread about 100 times over the last 30 or 40 years. Someone directed me here. The price is quite reasonable for good quality HSS taps & dies of odd thread size, but they've been out of stock for at least a year. However checking it now to post the URL, I see they are finally available again - group buy anyone...?

Cheers,

I'll have to get back to you on that one Ian. I think I may have bodged it somehow, but don't remember how. I'll take it apart and measure the thread tomorrow.

IanW and Picko, that's a great idea, using a bolt as a plug. I did look into welding cast iron earlier this evening, that route is definitely not happening. I'm not fussed by the hole or a plugged appearance in the sole as it won't affect functionality. The other parts are pretty decent so it would have been a shame to set this plane aside or part it out. I think I'm turning into an old tool tragic.

Any reason I can't use the existing rod? The threads are fine, just the angle is off.

Hi A. Could another solution be to make a new handle with the hole drilled through at an angle matching the current bolt?

My approach using limited skills or metal work tools would’ve been

Locktite or perhaps use an epoxy to glue a bolt or threaded rod into the existing hole. File it flush so it is effectively filled and drill the correct hole and thread


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Originally Posted by Alkahestic

....Any reason I can't use the existing rod? The threads are fine, just the angle is off....

Tbh, that would have been my first impulse - no point in making a bad situation worse if you are not confident with netalworking & not well setup for it. I'd investigate two possibilities. One would be to make a new handle as Mountain Ash suggests, and drill the hole in the handle to suit the angle of the existing stud. A potential problem with that approach is that with a standard tote the stud passes very close to the front of the grip near the top, so if the bodgy stud is leaning more than a couple of degrees forward, you might have to slope the grip a bit further forward (towards the front of the plane) so the hole doesn't break through. That may produce further problems because there isn't a lot of room between the grip & the adjuster wheel and if you have large hands, you may find there isn't much room to lose, though my 5 1/2 (an earlier version than yours) has lots of room for my medium/small hands. A mock-up from scrap & a bit of trial & error wil soon sort that out.

It's quite ok to bend the stud a little to get it to sit at the correct angle, & not hard to do, but don't try it by bending it in the plane unless you're a habitual risk-taker. With the stud screwed in, mark the point where it exits the sole clearly, take it out, and put it in a vise (use aluminium inserts so you don't squash the threads), with the exit mark level with the top of the jaws. Then take a piece of hard wood & apply pressure so it bends the stud just a wee bit at that point. Bend & test - it may take a couple of goes to get it right, but better to sneak up on the right angle.

This is how I replaced the tote on my first Veritas plane - I hated that ugly upright thing it came with & wanted a grip like the ones I'd been used to for the previous 30 years. Having two studs made it a bit harder, there was no room for error in drilling the holes! On my first attempt I leaned the new tote as far forward as I dared, & managed to drill the stud holes without disaster. It improved things a bit:
Old and new.jpg

But it was still not right for me - my bench height & work habits are all optimised to the slope of the old handles, so I had a re-think. The studs on Veritas planes are conveniently 1/4" NC, & 1/4" BSW all-thread is a good enough fit for purpose. Being cheap & plentiful, I reckoned I could experiment away with little to lose, so I made a handle the same profile as an old Stanley & drilled the holes at the increased angle this necessitated. Bending the studs to match the increased angle turned out far easier to do than I'd expected, and my plane now sports entirely satisfactory woodwork:
handles cf.jpg

As you can see, it's quite changed from the original & leans a lot further forward, but the Veritas adjuster
is out of the way so there is heaps of room for even a large hand.

It looks like the handle you have is original rosewood & nicely shaped & well worth keeping if it can be repaired, but it also looks suspiciously like our friend has had a go at it already. I can see a hole in the back (screw?) and the join looks too straight, so I'm wondering if it has been sawn or planed to try to get the broken surfaces to meet cleanly? If that's the case the grip may be a bit short & tight for average hands & not worth the trouble to fix. I have no compunctions about making new handles for users - comfort & practicality are far more important to me than preserving original parts on something as common as a Stanley plane.

BTW, the pic of the stud on your plane is too blurry to make out the thread, but I'd doubt it matches the original. If the original brass nut was still there, I'd reckon our handyman friend just forced it onto a 1/4 bsw thread (possible, since it's the same pitch & there is generous clearance in those nuts & the steel will cut the brass like a tap if you force it hard enough). If that's the case it will work on 1/4" BSW stud but you will probably not be able to go back to the 'proper' 7/32 size without risk of stripping it when you tighten it down, so you are stuck with the existing thread, whatever it is, or looking for a new nut if you changed it to the 'proper' size.
Cheers,

What hesaid but the short version.

Originally Posted by Picko

What hesaid but the short version.

OK, OK, I'll try to be more concise in future......

Originally Posted by IanW;

Did you mange to replicate the original thread with the correct tap?
Cheers,

I had a look at this at lunch time and as soon as I took that bolt out I remembered where it came from. I didn't have an original bolt/screw, so went searching in one of the "that could come in handy one day" boxes. I remember I found two long bolts that came from a small electric motor that was scrapped, and the length was almost perfect. They were M5, so that’s what I used. I can see that I “fashioned” the hex head into the round on the grinder and cut a screwdriver slot with a hacksaw and opened it out with a needle file.
F03BDBA2-6991-4326-A8BB-94427EF3DC9C.jpg 5AB0A81E-AEEE-460A-9F58-36BC257E0844.jpg
Apologies Alkahestic, we’ve strayed a bit.

That's some great discussion. I have a 4 1/2 which also suffers from a stripped thread at the bottom of the tote.

I was never sure how to fix that best. Now I have some inspiration as well.

Sent from my SM-G781B using Tapatalk

IanW your posts maybe longer than average but I don't think there's any brown on my nose if I say they're full of useful information, so by all means, make your posts lengthy! I very much appreciate the time people take to share their experience and knowledge.

MA - I did and am still considering just reusing the rod since the threads aren't busted. One concern is that the rod is bent enough that I will have to straighten it if I want to remove it, as it is bent over enough that it gets in the way of the raised part of the sole that the handle sits on. I have already bent it a bit but thought I'd leave it until I had consulted with the brains trust (i.e. not me, you guys). But then how often does one remove a plane handle anyway? Maybe I'm just being a bit vain in wanting to return the plane to it's original setup.

I'll take some more photos tonight - but unfortunately the handle itself is in very poor condition. Great shame because the rosewood is just wonderful to touch. If inspiration or madness strikes (aren't they the same thing?), I may try some surgery on it. I think the 'nut' is also an homebrew affair. It doesn't look like other Stanley nuts and the hole is offcentre.

Originally Posted by Alkahestic

...... I think the 'nut' is also an homebrew affair. It doesn't look like other Stanley nuts and the hole is offcentre ...

Stanley used plain straight brass nuts for their early planes, I don't know when they changed to the waisted type, but it was somewhere between the time of a no-lateral-adjuster plane I had (pre ~1890) which had plain, straight sided nuts, and the early 1900s, as I have a couple of planes from then & they have the familiar waisted nuts. So I think you can be pretty certain the nut is a ring-in (& I've never seen an off-centre nut from a Stanley plane, they ain't high precision things, but certainly not off by enough to be obvious to the naked eye!).

I have teh strong impression that the bloke what 'fixed' your plane wasn't over-endowed with gear, but we should give him a mark for trying......

Cheers,