Thread: Replacement screw for fence on old Stanley 78 rabbet plane

Originally Posted by MartinCH

Genie of the internet grants your request https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/12630191...3ABFBMoomap7Jj

regards

Slightly incorrect description in that listing; that's a 1/2" UNF!

Originally Posted by Picko

1/2" x 20 might be a bit big I think.

Hmmm... threadform and pitch are ok; just the diameter is a teensy oversized...

Originally Posted by Chief Tiff

Slightly incorrect description in that listing; that's a 1/2" UNF!

Whoops, try this https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/325572643325

Originally Posted by IanW

It's a ticklish situation, 'cos looking at my thread chart, that thread pitch is a real outlier! A 'standard' #10 UNC or Whitworth thread has a pitch of 24tpi & recommended drill size of 3.8mm (coarse) & 4.1mm for the UNF thread (32tpi). Simply running a standard #10 tap through the existing thread will most likely end up with a mess, so that's not an option.

Finding an original-size thumbscrew would be the simplest solution, but hen's teeth are probably more common! If you wanted to convert to a common (very common!) thread size, I think your best bet would be to go up to M5. That has a recommended drill size of 4.2mm, which should remove most of the original thread & give you a clean & usable thread after re-tapping. Looking at my fence, there is plenty of 'meat' to take the increased size.

The 78 is a bit of a nuisance - virtually any old example you come across has long since parted ways with its "loose" bits, either fence or depth stop (or more often than not, both) &/or their associated screws. It would make life so much easier for those who wish to get them back working if Stanley had opted for a thread size stocked by modern hardware stores!

IanW
I always thought that Stanley (or was it Lenard Bailey) started making cast iron planes BEFORE thread sizes were standardised in the later half of the 19th century into UNC, Whitworth, SAE, et al.
I always understood that Stanley stayed with their "Stanley special threads" -- for want of a better descriptor -- because they
1. wanted to retain their existing casting patterns
2. wanted to ensure compatibility of spare parts (especially screw threads) across their range of planes
3. wanted to make sure that rival makers screw threads didn't fit genuine Stanley planes -- I'm not sure what thread sizes were used for planes made under contract for other manufacturers.

you probably should rearrange the order of that list.

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and surely you jest with your last comment about threads stocked by modern hardware stores -- I'm sure I've seen here disparaging comments about the quality of threads stocked by modern hardware chains like the Green Shed

Originally Posted by MartinCH

Whoops, try this https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/325572643325

Close-ish; but forcing Whit and Unified threadforms together is like nails down a blackboard to me... I won't even use Metric spanners on Imperial fasteners where the difference is almost negligible...

I'm not actually actively hunting for a set; I just have a look now and again to see if they've become more available and/or affordable. Prices at the moment are such that I can pick up a rusty plane for parts at a lower cost.

Originally Posted by ian

...and surely you jest with your last comment about threads stocked by modern hardware stores -- I'm sure I've seen here disparaging comments about the quality of threads stocked by modern hardware chains like the Green Shed....

Ian, indeed it was a jest of sorts. Mr. Whiitworth introduced his thread system in 1841, which was more than a decade before the first Bailey bench planes appeared (~1859), but it was not widely adopted in the US. In their typical free-wheelin style the Yanks stuck with whatever they were used to until well into the20th C when the "unified" system was adopted. Of course, Stanley in 1859 most certainly had no inkling that the world (well, most, excluding the US of A) would be using an entirely different thread system by the 21st century, nor would they have cared a hoot if they did, so I wrote that part very much tongue in cheek.

As to the Big Green Shed, the one I attend (reluctantly) on a regular basis has begun to carry a much more extensive range of fasteners than they kept a few years ago, and they have taps & die nuts in both metric & Imperial (though a pretty restricted range in Imperial). The taps & dies are high carbon steel, not HSS, but they are cheap & adequate for anyone only needing to cut a few threads now & then. I've bought a couple because they are cheap & 'expendable' but they have all done what I needed & are still usable.

I was surprised Martin found that 10-28 tap & die set at such a reasonable price (postage will more than double that, of course). That really is an oddball size nowadays, but obviously someone uses it fort some specific purpose. I've long known UNC & UNF, but I'd not heard of UNS before today, so I've learnt something, again....

Cheers,

Originally Posted by IanW

That really is an oddball size nowadays, but obviously someone uses it fort some specific purpose. I've long known UNC & UNF, but I'd not heard of UNS before today, so I've learnt something, again....

Cheers,

Apparently they are used in planes- the ones that fly, ie Cessnas, AN510-10-28 FLAT HEAD SCREW - Univair Aircraft Corporation.

edit - the price was including postage.

Originally Posted by Chief Tiff

... I won't even use Metric spanners on Imperial fasteners where the difference is almost negligible....

I have to confess I quite often do.

My 'mechanic' toolbox sits right at the back of my shed and is frequently half-buried by stuff and a pain (quite literally a few times), to get at - I'm a woodworker, after all! . Once I was fascinated & attracted by all things greasy & mechanical that made noise, and constantly found with a spanner in my hand. I considered myself pretty good at guestimating nut & bolt sizes at a glance, so when I guess that a nut or stud I need to undo is metric X or Imperial Y, and it turns out to be the reverse of what I thought (which is pretty often nowadays), I'm annoyed but too lazy to go back for the right tool. If it is one of the close matches, I usually try whatever I brought out to see if it'll do the job. With sizes like 5/8" & 5/16" where the metric 'equivalent' is very close, I can usually get away with it just fine, but a few days ago, I had to change the blades on my mower. I was sure the blade bolts were metric, 16mm but as soon as I put some decent oomph on the spanner, it slipped. I tried a 5/8", and no problem. I guess the spanner & the nut were each at opposite extremes of their tolerance range.

Said mower is a bit of a pita - built in America, but fitted with a German motor, so it's a mix of metric & UN. Keeps me on my toes...

Cheers,

I made one for mine last year after a couple of years thinking "It'll turn up in the bottom of the toolbox somewhere".
I cut the thread on the lathe and just hand shaped the grip on the grinder.

P1010035.jpg

I just an el-cheapo tap and die set so will retap it

Originally Posted by lemerv

It’s in good nick but is missing the screw to tighten down the fence to the rod.

Originally Posted by lemerv

I just an el-cheapo tap and die set so will retap it

If the female thread in the fence is OK, you shouldn't need to re-tap it. I assume you want to make a thumbscrew with a 10-28 thread? In that case you will only need the die. But you are going to have to find a way to turn off the thread on an oversize thumbscrew leaving a plain shank to cut the new 10-28 thread onto. Do you have a plan for that? Even if you have a metal lathe it will be tricky to hold a thumb screw in the chuck.

An easier option might be to drill out the old female 10-28 thread and retap it to the next size up (metric or imperial- take your pick). Then just buy a matching thumbscrew.

Maybe grab this? In Brisbane but he may post.

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Originally Posted by jack620

If the female thread in the fence is OK, you shouldn't need to re-tap it. I assume you want to make a thumbscrew with a 10-28 thread? In that case you will only need the die. But you are going to have to find a way to turn off the thread on an oversize thumbscrew leaving a plain shank to cut the new 10-28 thread onto. Do you have a plan for that? Even if you have a metal lathe it will be tricky to hold a thumb screw in the chuck.

An easier option might be to drill out the old female 10-28 thread and retap it to the next size up (metric or imperial- take your pick). Then just buy a matching thumbscrew.

Hi Jack, in the tree I think Lemerv has stated that he will reap.

But still others have lost the screw, including myself and the same screw is used in other plane models.

In the case of the fence the head of the screw is not used

If the head of the screw if required to compress
- Add some washers to fill the gap
- tap assumable thumbnut and insert a threaded rod

Regards

Originally Posted by jack620

...... Even if you have a metal lathe it will be tricky to hold a thumb screw in the chuck. ...

Indeed it would if you made the head first! Even with a 4-jaw chuck that would complicate setup for turning/threading the shaft. Either take a length of bar of suitable diameter, turn down the shaft & thread it, then form the head. That requires a lot of turning when the head diameter is much greater than the shaft. A more economical use of material is to make the head separately and tap it to take the shaft.

In any case, there is no law that says you have to use a winged TS, my Record (which has two fence rods), has slotted screws. The heads are generously large & knurled so you can tighten them enough with fingers to stay put while you reach for a screwdriver to tighten them more firmly.

It can be a bit of a nuisance needing another tool to set up a tool, but you rarely need to set a rebate fence more than a couple of times on any given job, so it's a very minor inconvenience in my book.

Cheers,