Thread: More saw restoration

There will certainly be other more knowledgable saw persons along to comment on the English saw, but I have a couple of thoughts on the others.
BTW congratulations on finding some lovely examples of the sawmakers art.
The large Disston with the extra hole is as long as it is, because length is an asset in rip saws. I don't think you mentioned how long it was but these can be up to around 30 inches long. See here.
The two backsaws are quality, the Tyzack in particular.
They will serve you well.
SG

My FIL gave me the Tyzack for nothing and the small dovetail saw you see there - a Disston - cost me $10 from memory. This whole saw collecting thing is one hell of a lot cheaper than assembling planes and chisels was.

Of course, I haven't yet sharpened these guys, which is more than half the battle. A set of Grobet files arrived in the mail today...

Originally Posted by snafuspyramid

This whole saw collecting thing is one hell of a lot cheaper than assembling planes and chisels was.

Heh heh heh ... for noooow ...

Originally Posted by snafuspyramid

Does anyone know anything about this Tyzack saw? Any idea of the age? It seems to be of excellent quality to me, though I've not yet sharpened it. It had a varnish finish originally.

RayG maybe able to tell you about when companies merged etc ... but that makers name was in use in 1920 at least ... check out this cattle-dog and the page of saws ...

Specific Product Catalogue - W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner Ltd, Tyzack Elephant Brand Hand & Circular Saws, circa 1920 - Museum Victoria

Of course it could date to earlier or later than that.

Cheers,
Paul

How old is my backsaw? : Hand Tools - UKworkshop.co.uk

Pedder in this link quotes from "Handsaw Makers of Britain" ...

1867-1906 before becoming "Ltd" company ... "Ltd" from 1906-1990

Cheers,
Paul

I have no idea if the Hague & Co can relate to these felllas ... ... B. Hague the Company
(knitting supplies)

Vague possibility this could be related ... putting a latest date around 1906 ...
http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issu.../4731/page.pdf
http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issu.../4732/page.pdf

The flat under-grip is an indication of a "2nd quality saw" ... which seems like a put-down until you look at the handles

If you look at Ray's excellent Timeline (Timeline | Saw Features | Styles | Places | Events) the split nuts also tend to tie down the dating to (don't quote me) very vaguely 1780-1900.

Medallions started to be used from about 1850, but I believe this sort of saw was still being made in the UK even after 1900 for a decade or more.

The real experts might tell you more based on elements of the handle shape.

I like them all. (Love the thumbhole saws)
Cheers,
Paul

I would guess that the Tyzack is quite late, judging by the handle. The handle feels great, especially for my larger hands - it has a solidity to it that matches the rest. Judging by the lack of ornamentation and the state of deterioration of the finish I would guess it to be post WW2, though a lovely saw nonetheless.

The Hague, while probably considerably older, may well not be worth restoring. The sawplate is slightly bowed, though whether there is enough of a wave to be a concern in a handsaw I'm not too sure - I won't know until I sharpen it. The handle and the split nuts appear to have been assaulted with very course sandpaper at some stage - there's no real "patina" to speak of, there's only scratches and dirt. The handle shape is quite nice, but has also sustained some significant damage in its travels (to the lower horn, as usual) and is cracked along the spine, as you can see. But for all that, my old dad is very proud of having found me this saw for the kingly sum of $15, so I'll be darned if I don't make it fairly useable.

That brings me to the first little conundrum, which is how to replace the nuts. The saw nuts are buggered, and the slots are almost non-existent. Removing them will probably involve a powered drill and a grim expression. I need to be able to remove the handle so that I can repair the split and fit new nuts.

Then there's the issue of finishing. I tried simply cleaning with turps, but the results were unimpressive. I intend to sand the whole thing back a bit and then coat with something that won't interfere with any old finish, whatever that is, probably BLO or tung oil wiping varnish followed by Renaissance wax.

I'll probably also repair the horn, once I can figure out what sort of timber it is.

In other words, to get this saw back to what I consider to be a useable condition, I will be seriously butchering the poor thing and destroying any value it may have to a collector (or likely anybody else, for that matter).

What's the correct approach here? I'd like to be satisfied that this saw isn't of some value to a collector before I ruin it - I'd rather sell it and use the money to buy something "worthless" like another old $5 Spear and Jackson...

Originally Posted by snafuspyramid

.....Unfortunately one of the split nuts has fallen out, and the previous owner committed that cardinal sin of hand tools and used the saw anyway, with the predictable result:

Tch, tch, Eddie - it's the bolt (or screw) that is missing - the split nut is actually still there. It probably has a stripped thread, since that's the most likely way I can see that you could lose the bolt but not the nut.

You should be able to find old saw bolts & nuts that will match yours fairly closely - haven't any atm myself, but someone else is sure to. An oldie is the preferred option for an old saw like that, but if you are really stuck, making a new matching bolt should be a very simple matter (I could copy that off-centre slot on the existing nut without even trying ). I wouldn't fuss too much about the crack in the handle. You could try dribbling or injecting glue into it & clamping (with the blade removed), but most old handles are full of oil & any glue you use is unlikely to hold for long, if at all. Replacing the bolt should hold it together, and prevent further extension of the crack.

Cheers,

Edit: Me & my big mouth - after re-reading the post, I see I might have been looking at the wrong saw - is the one with what looks like an empty nut the one you are talking about? However, my advice about the crack stands.

And as far as the damaged bottom horn goes, it will make little difference to it's usability. I would just clean up any splinters & use as-is. The wood is heavily stained by time & goodness-knows what, so getting a repair to blend in will be a real challenge, and it may end up looking worse. You have to expect a few disfiguring accidents in the life of such an old campaigner, it's just part of their story....

it depends on how nice the handle fits your hand on the Hauge & Co, to whether its worth getting (economically speaking) back to working condition, these old saws with london pattern handles (flat bottom to handle) are getting fewer to come across while your out and about so it makes for a good candidate to get back to working condition if it fits you well, or a good candidate for hanging on the wall for decoration if its not, with a loose worn split handle you can only try though, for a daily user it may never be a perfectly tight handle, can only tell by trying..i wouldnt rub the saw plate back to shiny or anything like that, that would spoil it imo, i would not sand the handle back either, equally that would spoil it imo, nice to keep that well earned old patina (besides its easier to do nothing!), it might be a beach handle, i'm never sure with some of those old saws but they are more often than not, beech, on occasion they are very dense and heavy wood which sometimes makes me think they are something else..either way taking a bit from another saw handle (or even old wooden plane) that looks similar but in un-fixable ready for the trash bin condition can match in perfectly, it can be worth fixing the little splintered horn because they can be irritating, particularly on a panel saw where the smaller handle can mean the bottom part of your hand has a chance of touching it now and again, at least if you have largish hands like me, if you do repair the horn take as little out as is needed with small chisels (to form a rectangle shape) and glue a new bit in, file it with a small rasp and sandpaper to finish

a slight bow in the saw plate can be taken out, the London Spring indention probably means it was one of the makers top offerings (best steel available), probably not the location , so it should be good steel, i find some of these old panel saws are lovely to use but not always my most favourite because the saw plates are sometimes a tad thicker gauge than others i have, but i have some pretty choice saws so i'm a bit picky..you can be lucky sometimes though as i have some English made saws, even full size hand saws and rip saws from mid to late 1800's (estimates) that are as thin as the best from any maker, ever

clamp the handle together tightly before trying to remove the nuts, and after injecting glue as mentioned by ian clamp it together to close the split, clamp together tightly once inserted on the saw plate too before doing up the nuts so your not using the brass threads to try and pull it together, if the slot is too worn, and it might be, you might need some shims out of wet and dry emery paper to make up for it, hopefully not

what length is the D-8 rip saw? (measured along the tooth line) nice saws and in abundance even today, hate to think just how many of these were made, must of been one for every man, woman and child i think. that doesnt make them poor quality (though i have come across the odd dud) but not too many people rip long lengths by hand nowadays (which is what the thumbhole saws are best for), or for a long time! which might be why there are so many rip saws still floating around, everybody bought one but nobody used them ...nibs arnt found just on short panel saws, they are found on full length (26", 28" &30") hand saws and rip saws too, but nibs went out fashion by the late twenties, many saw makers stopped that style long before which might account for why you havnt seen too many



cheers
chippy

Originally Posted by snafuspyramid

I would guess that the Tyzack is quite late, judging by the handle. The handle feels great, especially for my larger hands - it has a solidity to it that matches the rest. Judging by the lack of ornamentation and the state of deterioration of the finish I would guess it to be post WW2, though a lovely saw nonetheless.

I don't know. The handle still has the 'peak' or 'bill' to the grip area - but diminished from the 1920 illustration.
And the bolts look to be brass(?) ... I'm thinking they would be steel after WW2.

snaf2.JPG

Compare to these Spear & Jacksons ... see what they look like by about 1915 ... Saw Discussion Forums - View Single Post - Comparative Dating by Style

Cheers,
Paul

Originally Posted by ch!ppy

clamp together tightly once inserted on the saw plate too before doing up the nuts so your not using the brass threads to try and pull it together, if the slot is too worn, and it might be, you might need some shims out of wet and dry emery paper to make up for it, hopefully not.
chippy

Perfect .. thanks Chippy

I have a Simonds here with a nice ring to it that I took off the handle to clean it up a bit without scrubbing on the handle.
I cleaned out some (you would think) insignificant dust and grime from inside the kerf where the blade fits in.
Putting it back together, the ring had turned mostly into an ugly "Blutt". Even though the handle looked good and tight, it isn't holding onto the blade evenly enough to allow it to sing nicely when tapped.

I'll give that a try.

Cheers,
Paul

Regarding the Hague & Co ... I like the look of the handle. It isn't the most ornate, but I like it.

If you don't know yet what to do with it ... just sit on it for a while.
OK ... I'll rephrase that.

Clean rust off if necessary, moisturise and come back to it. See what you feel about it after you've cleaned the others.

On the one hand, in the world of English saws from 1800 to 1920 it isn't very remarkable.
But if you don't come across them often (yet) - then it is.

It doesn't have to be a worker ... you don't send your old grandpa out to dig roads do you? (Do you???)

Here are some English saws I have ... and they are certainly not sparkling examples of the best of the era ... but gives some feel for the variety ...
English saws - pmcgee - Saw Discussion Forums

Cheers,
Paul

Originally Posted by pmcgee

I don't know. The handle still has the 'peak' or 'bill' to the grip area - but diminished from the 1920 illustration.
And the bolts look to be brass(?) ... I'm thinking they would be steel after WW2.

snaf2.JPG

Compare to these Spear & Jacksons ... see what they look like by about 1915 ... Saw Discussion Forums - View Single Post - Comparative Dating by Style

Cheers,
Paul

On the one hand, my saw doesn't have the lamb's tongue, but on the other, it still has a medallion and brass. Apparently post war examples use steel and forego the medallion, as you mentioned, So I suppose that dates it to somewhere between 1921-1950.

As for the London pattern Hague, I checked the saw plate again and it is in fact very straight. Not sure why I remembered differently.

I'll keep an eye out for old split nuts. How would I make my own?

Originally Posted by snafuspyramid

As for the London pattern Hague, I checked the saw plate again and it is in fact very straight. Not sure why I remembered differently.

I'll keep an eye out for old split nuts. How would I make my own?

straight! fantastic, so much the better

to make a split nut you have to go over to the other side and be a metal worker arrg nah, someone like ian with a lathe might be able to do one for some beers or wine if your lucky, or you get an old one off a saw thats really kaput , or you could send away for one from a couple of places in the US that make saws and sell nuts, but their pricey, and shipping would make for expensive nut and bolt!

worth doing though, its a nice looking saw to my eyes, the london handles arnt as PMG says as ornate as others, but they are still very nice, simple, functional and kinda show its origin and date the saw as well, perhaps more than the etch does



cheers
chippy