Thread: Restoring my Grandfather's old saws.

It's worth giving a go. Plan B is make a new handle. If you place an old handle in you'r photocopier you then have a nice template. Much better than trying to trace off an old handle.
Regards
John

I was wondering if I should put the handle in a plastic tub with a damp sponge to rehydrate the wood. That's how I store my wooden flutes during the dry summer months.

Just an update on the saw plates - I decided to give them a soak in vinegar. The cross-cut saw was actually more heavily rusted than I thought. The rip-saw has some sort of black/blue coating on it, and I think it must have been rust convertor. A bath in the vinegar for about 5 hours and most of the rust has come off, and the blackening is coming off too, revealing a rather nice saw plate.

Originally Posted by hartleymartin

..... The rip-saw has some sort of black/blue coating on it, and I think it must have been rust convertor. A bath in the vinegar for about 5 hours and most of the rust has come off, and the blackening is coming off too, revealing a rather nice saw plate....

HM, in your first post you mentioned the saw has "TEFLONS" marked on it, which suggests to me the blade was Teflon-coated & that's probably the black material you removed in the vinegar bath. Teflon-coating was a gimmick on hand saws imo, so you've lost little, but it's probably the reason the metal underneath is in such good shape.

Judging by the handle, it's from a post WW2 model, probably from the 50s or 60s (at least they are still wood & not plastic). By that stage, manufacturers were not putting the same effort into their saws compared with earlier times. The taper on the blades will probably not be as well-done as on the early D8s and the tensioning was not as thorough. I'm assuming you want to give your saws a new life because of the strong family connections, and I'd guess you'd rather fix the existing handle than replace it. Glueing long-standing cracks is a fraught business, the glue rarely takes unless you can thoroughly clean the surfaces & even then, the oxidised wood cells don't make for a strong bond. I'd be tempted to make a careful saw-cut through a straight crack like that, and fill it with epoxy, it will be an obvious repair, but you could consider it a mark of your care & veneration.

If you want to use them seriously, I'm sure grandpa would be quite happy for you to make some relatively minor alterations to the handles. If you compare these two Disston D8s, the difference in the handles is the extra wood left on the later handles (bottom) compared with the earlier example (top): Handles cf.jpg

The bottom saw is inherited from FIL, and was his father's, bought in the early 50s. The saw was reasonably good, but the handle was not at all nice to hold, so I took to it with a rasp & sandpaper and did a bit of judicious alteration: Handle shaped.jpg

The result is a far more comfy thing to use, and after a few years the freshly exposed wood is already blending in and acquiring its quota of minor marks. I'm sure FIL doesn't mind, and by the time it goes to someone else, the evidence of my attentions will be hard to see anyway....

Get them sharpened & set & see how they drive then decide how much work you want to put into them.

Cheers,

The plan is to repair/refurbish them as best as I can. I am starting to wonder if that split is such a serious problem since it appears to be old, straight along the grain and there are still two saw handle screws/bolts on either side. The crack has been there for well over 25 years as I remember as a small child I was poking around the shed and I remember it having a bit of a broken handle and Grandfather said that it wasn't worth the bother to fix it since it still felt very solid. This would have been around the time he was building a doghouse in the back yard.

Originally Posted by hartleymartin

I was wondering if I should put the handle in a plastic tub with a damp sponge to rehydrate the wood. That's how I store my wooden flutes during the dry summer months......

That might effect a temporary closure or partial closure of the split, but since you will want to store your reassembled saws in a dry environment, not a very permanent solution! My guess is the handle was not well-dried when it was put on the saw & split as soon as it was exposed to a low RH. This is supported by the crack being in the widest section between bolts & it doesn't continue through the grip. The wood has now settled to the climate it finds itself in, & if you manage to force the crack closed & stick them with glue, the bolts won't match the holes in the plate. That's why I suggested you could simply fill it with a gap-filling glue like epoxy.

Your suggestion to just forget about it is a perfectly reasonable approach, the split obviously isn't fatal, so don't worry about fixing it 'til it's fully broke (I tend to follow that philosophy quite a bit ). If it's been there as long as you say already, it's likely no further action will be required while it's in your custody.....

Cheers,

Thanks. I think that's the course of action I'll take.

The rust is mostly gone after a couple of days in vinegar+water bath with a good scrub with some stainless steel wool. I changed the vinegar after 24 hours as it had gone brown-black. Another 24 hours and the same thing, but less rust flakes now. Plan of action from here is to take a brass wire brush wheel to remove the remainders of the black gunk, followed by several grades of wet-and-dry paper. The plan is to get the plates nicely polished up then take them to some professionals to get the teeth properly straightened, set and sharpened. I don't have much call for large hand-saws - I mostly use small tenon saws, a flush-cut dovetail pull saw and a mitre box saw, but I've been eyeing off some rough sawn black-butt planks for a future project. I also just got myself some nice old wooden planes - a couple of Mathiesons and a Czech made Tigre. Just got to get my work-bench out of storage and re-assembled.

Originally Posted by hartleymartin

Thanks. I think that's the course of action I'll take.

The rust is mostly gone after a couple of days in vinegar+water bath with a good scrub with some stainless steel wool. I changed the vinegar after 24 hours as it had gone brown-black. Another 24 hours and the same thing, but less rust flakes now. Plan of action from here is to take a brass wire brush wheel to remove the remainders of the black gunk, followed by several grades of wet-and-dry paper. The plan is to get the plates nicely polished up then take them to some professionals to get the teeth properly straightened, set and sharpened. I don't have much call for large hand-saws - I mostly use small tenon saws, a flush-cut dovetail pull saw and a mitre box saw, but I've been eyeing off some rough sawn black-butt planks for a future project. I also just got myself some nice old wooden planes - a couple of Mathiesons and a Czech made Tigre. Just got to get my work-bench out of storage and re-assembled.

hartleymartin

It is always good to see somebody new getting hold of old saws and restoring them. So before I say anything else: Well done.

I would not have used any chemical method of removing rust. Firstly there is a distinct possibility that some changes in the metal can occur and secondly it seems that as well some level of residual discolouration resulting the plate is now even more prone to rusting than previously. If it is on a solid chunk of metal such as a hand plane chemical rust removal is not really an issue, but the plate of a handsaw is less forgiving. However you have already got a way down the track on this and I would go straight to the wet and dry paper. Use it wet of course. Lubricants preferences vary from person to person. Many advocate using turps, WD40 etc. and they work well enough, but I find they clog quickly, are very messy and they stink as well as costing a little. I use water. Just make sure you don't leave the saw in a wet condition. Dry it thoroughly (oven, hairdryer or hot sun will all work well).

Without seeing the saw plate I can't be too specific but would suggest you start will 240g and work your way up as far as you want.

With the handle I would clean the split as well as you can and then very carefully prise the split apart sufficiently to work an epoxy glue into the crack. I use timber wedges and blocks of wood in the handle hole to encourage the crack to open a little. Needless to say, go very carefully with this. The timber wedges hold the crack open while you work with two hands. Use an epoxyglue as it has gap filling properties and clamp it gently. It will probably be more for aesthetics than strength. As others have said there is a good chance it will hold together quite well anyway unless it is dropped or knocked when the weakness may result in a break.

I think the saw dates from well into the "H K Porter" era. HK Porter bought Disston out in 1955. The last catalogue I could find that did not have any teflon saws was 1959. I found this catalogue with four teflon models but it did not have a date. I am guessing mid sixties, but that is a guess.

Disston H K Porter Teflon saws.jpg

Your saw could be the 220SS, but difficult to say without seeing the whole saw and you example does seem to have a decal placed at the top of the handle too. Perhaps you could post some pix of the plate and the saw hardware including the medallion. These later model Disstons are not an area with which I am familiar.

Regards
Paul

Thanks for those details and suggestions. I already have several sheets of wet-and-dry in varying grades for this purpose and whilst my cork sanding block has gone AWOL yet again, I do have a lump of balsa about the same size which seems to do the job just as well.

My grandfather's personal history was that he was de-mobbed from the AIF in 1947, met and married my grandmother in 1955 and the house where these saws had been living was purchased in 1974. Really, he might have bought this saw any time between 1947 and the 1970s.

The medallion is not brass. It appears to be some sort of plated steel - zinc maybe? I have not done much to the medallion or handle bolts other than spray them with a little WD40 and give them a wipe down with a cloth.

The second saw (no photos uploaded yet) is a slightly shorter cross-cut saw with what appears to be a much later handle. No medallion, only 3 bolts holding it on and a straight back.

In other news, I recently purchased an old Disston Tenon saw which has a steel back and the fellow who sold it to me also gave me an open-handled dovetail saw, which appears to be a German make, but the diamond-shaped maker's label is almost obliterated.

Reading developments with interest HM. Just bought 2 Disston tenon saws myself, one partially restored the other just waiting for me to find time. Paul (Bushmiller), what do you think of using a citric acid bath for rust removal. I have used it before and find that it's gentle enough to not require gloves (10:1 mix).

Originally Posted by Mountain Ash

Reading developments with interest HM. Just bought 2 Disston tenon saws myself, one partially restored the other just waiting for me to find time. Paul (Bushmiller), what do you think of using a citric acid bath for rust removal. I have used it before and find that it's gentle enough to not require gloves (10:1 mix).

Mountain Ash

It is always difficult to advise without seeing the saw and the consequent level of work that might be needed. Perhaps you would like to post some pix in another thread or even briefly here. Having said that, in principle, I don't really like to use any chemical or electrical method to de-rust handsaws. Citric acid does leave a yellow residual tinge on the steel (electrolysis leaves a very undesirable grey tinge) and that discolourisation may be difficult to remove subsequently with W & D. At some point if you wish to bring up a reasonable finish you are going to have to use W & D so it is not too much of a stretch to start with W & D.

I have made reference in other threads that I will start an updated saw restoration thread, but I have not done that and time is a bit of an enemy for the moment. So I will make some brief comments here. If rusting is extensive start with coarse W & D. Probably 120g, but often 240g will be fine. I tear it down into 1/8 strips and use a small hardwood block. In this manner I can use every part of the sheet and nothing is wasted. I actually like hartleymartin's improvised balsa block and I can relate to losing the cork blocks. All mine seem to have legs.

One of the reasons to use a block is particularly if you are rubbing over an etch as most people wish to preserve this (or find it if it is suspected to be lurking beneath the patina) if at all possible. Other wise you could dispense with a block. However you need to avoid creating finger marks (lines) so a block of some description is recommended. You could possibly use a polystyrene block to improvise.

For the best saws I go all the way through to 2000g, but much depends on the saw model and the original level of degradation.

I hope that helps. If you need more information I am very happy to help, but be aware that there is more than one way to achieve good results and this is purely my preferred way.

Regards
Paul

Hi Paul. I like the idea of starting a new thread. I have a good candidate but need the time. I also have one of my Grandad's saws, a Tyzack I think, at least I know it has an elephant on the medallion, and it has a lot of etching on the blade. I will try your w + d method and see what i can find.

Hi Bushmillar.

I picked up another Disstins with the same medallion for just $7 from Cash Converters. It is a smaller model, and as far as I can tell it just needs a good cleaning and sharpening. I also have a Disstons tenon saw - blunt, but in good shape with no rust, and another mystery dovetail saw which appears to have the remains of a decal which read "Made in Germany" in a diamond.

I spent some time today with some 80-grit wet-and-dry with some WD40 to try to remove the layer of black and what little remains of the teflons coating. I'll continue through the grades - I think the finest I have is 320. I do want to get a polished but not mirror finish.

The cross-cut saw I think is a much later 1970s-1980s saw. Not a Disston, and once the vinegar removed the orange rust, and WD40 with stainless steel wood removed the brown rust and black gunk, one side of the saw plate is very, very deeply pitted. As I recall this as the side facing upwards on the shelf. Only time will tell what I might do with that. Perhaps a source of scraper blades?

hartleymartin

It sounds to me very much like you have been bitten by the hand saw bug: The way around this problem is not minding that you have been bitten!

Post some pix and I am sure somebody will be able to give you some information. That maybe me, but it all depends on who sees the post first. There is a whole host of knowledge on these Forums.

Regards
paul

Originally Posted by Bushmiller

hartleymartin

It sounds to me very much like you have been bitten by the hand saw bug: The way around this problem is not minding that you have been bitten!

Post some pix and I am sure somebody will be able to give you some information. That maybe me, but it all depends on who sees the post first. There is a whole host of knowledge on these Forums.

Regards
paul

Stop it
We are all aware of exactly what your attentions are,
I personally use to be socially normal go to pub get blasted listening to the Sex pistols.
Now I look forward to a weekend in the Creative zone rubbing steel with wet and dry paper.

Does your lovely wife know what you get up to on hear.
[emoji3064][emoji3064][emoji3064]

Cheers Matt.




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