Thread: New To Restoring Handsaws

BTW ... a few Nicholsons were enough to sort out these saws.

But we killed one on the big saw

Cheers,
Paul

That should read ... Under Paul's approximate tutelage.

Just a quick question, has anyone here had any joy roughing out the new handle, using an old one as a router template?

Obviously with a profile bit, you won't get the tight details, but you would (I am guessing) get the general shape fairly well. Are there any other tricks/traps to using a router to speed up the process?

Craig

I made a few plane handles with a round over bit mounted in a router table, raising the bit a few mm each pass. It was a bit scary having my fingers so close to the blade and I would think twice about doing it now. I was younger then.

I made a handle this weekend using hand-cut rasps, scrapers and sandpaper to shape the handle. I have a curved handle makers rasp (13G) but would have been better off with a coarser 9G model. Most of the bulk wood removal was accomplished with 6G and 9G cabinet makers rasps. The 6G moves wood rapidly but leaves deep scratches.


Paul

Hello everybody,
I have about a dozen hand saws that need to be cleaned up and repaired.
So what would be the best type of wood to use for the saw handles?
Some are really badly damaged and i need replacements.
Thank you

Originally Posted by Nads

.....So what would be the best type of wood to use for the saw handles?....

Free wood!

Nads, it's a case of whatever turns your crank. Apart from a sprinkling of costly exotic woods on very fancy models, most old saws have Apple wood or Beech handles. Both are probably hard to source, but there are many substitutes. My advice is to choose a strong, tight-grained wood that isn't too hard to work, in a colour of your choice.

Cheers,

Originally Posted by Morbius

Just a quick question, has anyone here had any joy roughing out the new handle, using an old one as a router template?

Obviously with a profile bit, you won't get the tight details, but you would (I am guessing) get the general shape fairly well. Are there any other tricks/traps to using a router to speed up the process?

Craig

Craig, apart from using pre-drilling of the tight radii & a scroll saw for cutting out, I find rasp & files & scrapers are far more satisfactory when making handles. I tried using powered tools for shaping, early in my handle making career, but soon gave it up. Apart from the possibility of munched fingers, I don't like the sorts of shapes router bits give - it looks too mechnical. As you say, they can't manage any fine detail, so if you want a handle that looks decent, you may spend as much time cleaning up after the router as you would doing it all with appropriate hand tools from the start. As homesy says, selection of the right rasps makes a world of difference. It takes me very little time to shape a handle using rasps & files & there are no nasty burn-marks to sand out...

If you want your handle to look the part, there are a couple of profiles that need to change as they progress along their edges. For e.g., the profile on the 'back' of the grip looks best to my eye if it goes from a fairly symmetrical radius at the bottom horn, to a quite marked ellipse at the top where it sweeps into the top horn. It fits your hand better this way. It's quite easy to seamlessly blend these profiles using rasps & scrapers.

Cheers,

Paul,

I think I'd like to do the finer shaping with rasps and sandpaper, but to get the shape of the handle in the ball park, I was looking at using a router. I am not sure that a router would do all the final curves (at least as used in my hands) as well as I'd like.

Craig

Thanks Ian.

I suspect that I'll be investing in a few more rasps by year's end

I was hoping to use the router as a way to quickly get the outline of the handle shaped out in the blank. It would mean that I spend less time on the scroll and bandsaw to get the handle to a point where I can use hand tools to shape it. Not so much the final shaping of the handle - I'm sorry if I wasn't clear about that. I've got a fair selection of bits and 4 different routers, but wouldn't trust myself with a router to duplicate the gentle transitions from one width to another that are on the handle templates from TGIAG.

I am guessing that I'll have to be extra careful using a router to trace out the horns too for that matter. A router is starting to sound like it won't be much help at all.

Craig

Originally Posted by IanW

Craig, apart from using pre-drilling of the tight radii & a scroll saw for cutting out, I find rasp & files & scrapers are far more satisfactory when making handles. I tried using powered tools for shaping, early in my handle making career, but soon gave it up. Apart from the possibility of munched fingers, I don't like the sorts of shapes router bits give - it looks too mechnical. As you say, they can't manage any fine detail, so if you want a handle that looks decent, you may spend as much time cleaning up after the router as you would doing it all with appropriate hand tools from the start. As homesy says, selection of the right rasps makes a world of difference. It takes me very little time to shape a handle using rasps & files & there are no nasty burn-marks to sand out...

If you want your handle to look the part, there are a couple of profiles that need to change as they progress along their edges. For e.g., the profile on the 'back' of the grip looks best to my eye if it goes from a fairly symmetrical radius at the bottom horn, to a quite marked ellipse at the top where it sweeps into the top horn. It fits your hand better this way. It's quite easy to seamlessly blend these profiles using rasps & scrapers.

Cheers,

Originally Posted by Morbius

Thanks Ian.

I suspect that I'll be investing in a few more rasps by year's end

I was hoping to use the router as a way to quickly get the outline of the handle shaped out in the blank. It would mean that I spend less time on the scroll and bandsaw to get the handle to a point where I can use hand tools to shape it. Not so much the final shaping of the handle - I'm sorry if I wasn't clear about that. I've got a fair selection of bits and 4 different routers, but wouldn't trust myself with a router to duplicate the gentle transitions from one width to another that are on the handle templates from TGIAG.

I am guessing that I'll have to be extra careful using a router to trace out the horns too for that matter. A router is starting to sound like it won't be much help at all.

Craig

We knew what you wanted to know, Craig. A hand cut rasp is the go. The rasps really do remove a lot of wood in each stroke. No kick back, no missing fingers, no wood being flung across your shed. Don't tell SWMBO but I placed an order for a 9G handle makers rasp this morning from Logier. Postage was only 12 Euros. The site claimed it was a flat rate so I assume if you wanted a couple or three, postage would still be 12 Euros.

Originally Posted by homesy135

........I placed an order for a 9G handle makers rasp this morning from Logier. Postage was only 12 Euros.....

Homesy, the handlemaker's rasps are certainly the bees' knees for working inside confined spaces. They do their particular tasks brilliantly, but like any specialty tool, they don't do much else very well, so I'd recommend to Craig & other beginning 'handlers' that you concentrate on acquiring a good set of straight rasps to begin with, particularly if you are only planning on making one or two handles or a very occasional one. With the right straight rasps and a bit of care, you can still get at the inside bits well enough, and a good set of straight rasps is so much more versatile - you'll wonder how you got by without them, after a while! I used modeller's rasps for the insides before I got the handlemakers', & still use them for the really tight curves. A knife and/or chisel is handy for the parts where you want to go from rounded edges to flat chamfers. For the more sweeping curves, I still prefer a Nicholson #49 to anything else. It has just the right combination of weight, length, width & radius of the back for me. I got a couple of Liogiers that are close to the same dimensions, and they are good, but heavier, & not quite as flat a curve, so I still reach for the Nicholson first. Eventually, I will have to change, I suspect, as I'm on my last 'made in USA' Nicholson, & I've read that the new Nicholsons are all made elsewhere & aren't worth beans.

I didn't mean to discourage you from using any method that makes the job easier, Craig - you can certainly knock off some of the bits that don't look like handle with the router, and I've seen a few handles made entirely by router. You did seem a bit nervous about it, & I always reckon that if something makes you nervous, it increases the chances that something nasty will happen (DAMHIK!). My message is that if you want a handle you'll be truly happy with, the parts you can get at with router bits are probably the easiest to rasp anyway. It's the fiddly bits that take up your time, so the savings you might make by routing these parts are minimal in the scheme of things. What I found most difficult at first, was holding the damn things while I do the rasping - they are such an awkward shape! My tail vise is very handy for some parts of the job, but during the first few dozen handles, I learnt to hand-hold them for most of the rasping steps, and this is where you really appreciate the value of aggressive, but easy-cutting, rasps.

It's definitely worthwhile to make a mock-up or two from scrap, before ripping into a piece of expensive wood - you'll soon get the hang of those curves & it gives you confidence as well as showing which tools do which parts best. When you do get it right, & fit your own nicely made handle, that fits your hand like a glove, you'll know it was well worth the effort!

Cheers,

Originally Posted by IanW

Homesy, the handlemaker's rasps are certainly the bees' knees for working inside confined spaces. They do their particular tasks brilliantly, but like any specialty tool, they don't do much else very well, so I'd recommend to Craig & other beginning 'handlers' that you concentrate on acquiring a good set of straight rasps to begin with, particularly if you are only planning on making one or two handles or a very occasional one. With the right straight rasps and a bit of care, you can still get at the inside bits well enough, and a good set of straight rasps is so much more versatile - you'll wonder how you got by without them, after a while! I used modeller's rasps for the insides before I got the handlemakers', & still use them for the really tight curves. A knife and/or chisel is handy for the parts where you want to go from rounded edges to flat chamfers. For the more sweeping curves, I still prefer a Nicholson #49 to anything else. It has just the right combination of weight, length, width & radius of the back for me. I got a couple of Liogiers that are close to the same dimensions, and they are good, but heavier, & not quite as flat a curve, so I still reach for the Nicholson first. Eventually, I will have to change, I suspect, as I'm on my last 'made in USA' Nicholson, & I've read that the new Nicholsons are all made elsewhere & aren't worth beans.

Agreed. The first handle makers rasp I bought was my fifth hand cut rasp.

The first two I bought were from Bunning's and are very coarse and difficult to use. The second two were a couple of old worn out eBay offerings. After that I saw the light and bought hand cut rasps that are expensive but are a pleasure to use.

This saw had a Shaw and Sons etch. From what I can gather, Shaw and Sons were tool merchants rather than tool makers and used the "Governor Brand" trademark on their tools. This saw is a Governor Brand saw. Not sure if the etch was John or J. Shaw and Sons. It was in pretty poor shape but had an appealing handle. The original medallion read, "Warranted Superior". The new saw nuts are from Blackburn Tools.

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While I had the camera out I took some photos of two other Tyzack saws. Both have nicely shaped handles, the older of the two having countersunk hardware and "more rounded lines".

1. newer saw's markings

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2. Handle comparisons - newer on left

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3. Close-up of older saws countersunk
medallion
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4. Newer saw in-toto

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5. Newer saw's proud medallion

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6. Older saw in-toto

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