Thread: Old rip saw ruined by caring for it!!

Some photos of the points would be useful.

Resharpening it would be the first thing I would do.

I would suspect the treatment has affected the metal of the teeth tips in some way - just a guess because I've never soaked an old saw in Evaporust or similar chemicals no no experience to draw from. People do talk about embrittlement of steel from electrolysis (again never used it so can't comment), but I haven't heard of phosphoric acid based chemicals softening steel. As Bob suggested, the first step in diagnosis would be to re-sharpen. I'd start with a moderately heavy "jointing" or "topping" of the tooth tips. You should be able to feel the difference once the file cuts through to sound metal. When you feel like you're filing saw plate & not mild steel, re-sharpen & test.

I've used phosphoric acid to take off blueing from new blue-tempered saw plate by pouring a little on & rubbing it over with a rag, then thoroughly washing & drying the bare plate immediately. It has never caused any discernible softening (though I was a bit slack about cleaning the plate one time & it developed a good bloom of rust overnight! ).

I reckon there's a fair chance your saw will be cured without taking the teeth down very far....

Cheers,

Hi O. Probably something you would have noticed but it sounds like you hit a nail. Nothing takes the edge of newly sharpened teeth quicker (you can possibly guess pretty easily how I might know this)

I have used evaporust on quite a few saws never had any issues.

Just a follow up to add to my initial query.

I've been reading a lot of threads about 'correctly' sharpening a handsaw and a lot of them talk about 'jointing' the height of the sawblade's teeth.

I am wondering if there is a modern equivalent to this old sawfile holder Ancient sawfile holder.jpg or if someone has one lying around that would like to sell it ...?? I know there's jigs that can be made, but I've currently got too much else on the go, setting up a workshop, to stop and make one.

Originally Posted by Ozymandiaz

I know there's jigs that can be made, but I've currently got too much else on the go, setting up a workshop, to stop and make one.

I don’t use a file holder for jointing. It’s simple enough just gripping the file with two hands as I run it along the teeth.

Originally Posted by LanceC

I don’t use a file holder for jointing. It’s simple enough just gripping the file with two hands as I run it along the teeth.

Or just wedge a file in a block of wood...
saw_jointer.jpg

there sure is: Veritas Jointer/Edger - Lee Valley Tools

05M0701-veritas-jointer-edger-u-01-r.jpg

You might also be interested in a tool like this to assist with keeping angles spot on (while one learns): Veritas Saw File Holder - Lee Valley Tools

05G4601-veritas-saw-file-holder-f-01.jpg

(I do not speak from experience! The forum has been invaluable to learn how to sharpen the few saws I have. Im still learning!)

Originally Posted by LanceC

I don’t use a file holder for jointing. It’s simple enough just gripping the file with two hands as I run it along the teeth.

Lance, I sometimes hand-hold the file but it's difficult (for me) to hold the file properly flat safely when running it lengthwise (to preserve a straight line of the tips), so I only do that normally as a quick check to see how level the teeth are. If you hold the file cross-wise like a spokeshave, it removes metal quickly, but the narrow width will follow any undulations in the tooth line & can even exacerbate them. If there's any significant work to be done, I use a jig like Franklin's - they take all of about 10 minutes to make from a scrap of hardwood.
Jointing guide.jpg

Plane or chisel a small chamfer on the bottom side of the file slot to accommodate the set of the teeth. The threads for the locking bolts can be tapped directly into the wood & an ordinary metalwork tap will cut a pretty good thread in most hardwoods. If you don't own any taps, you can usually force a bolt into a slightly undersized hole & it will cut a thread sufficient for the purpose. Finger-tightening the bolts is usually sufficient to hold the file firmly enough.

Easier & safer than hand-holding & holds the file square to the top...

Cheers,

Originally Posted by Ozymandiaz

My father's ripsaw (5tpi) was derusted in EvapRust and cleaned as best I could. Sharpened carefully and teeth set using an Eclipse 77.

During the first test cut on some softwood scraps I noticed poor performance. Looking at the sawblade, I noticed every tooth that was involved in the initial cut had lost it's tooth point and the teeth were now rounded at the top.

What caused this and should I just throw the metal blade out ... ??

I'd imagine the tips of the teeth may have been starved by the oxidation in general.

I haven't seen this, but I have seen overhard saws that have teeth that crumble or crack easily.

if you remove half of the tooth height and resharpen and it does the same thing again, getting a different saw to use is a good idea.

Some saw tooth jointers:

P1080475 (Medium).JPGP1080476 (Medium).JPG

The two timber jointers are home made with the shorter one being a very old design that I did document on the Forums a while back, but for the life of me I cannot remember which thread. I did time myself making it and i think it was around a hour.

The galvanised jointer is made by Pike and the black design is of unknown original maker, but ubiquitous. (It featured in the 1923 Simonds catalogue I posted elsewhere. See post #7) They all work as intended, but I use the long wooden one.

The shorter jointers use old bits of cut down file. A smooth file is probably best to use, but anything if you have nothing else.

Regards
Paul

Isn't it extraordinary that a company can convince us to pay good money (sometimes a lot!) for items that take 10 minutes to make....

Originally Posted by woodPixel

Isn't it extraordinary that a company can convince us to pay good money (sometimes a lot!) for items that take 10 minutes to make....

most of what's sold now is sold to people imagining what they could do with it.

The aluminum file holder comes to mind to me as something that would hold metal and possibly stray abrasive grit and then scratch a saw plate with it. wood can do the same thing, but it's pretty easy to take the file out and sand it off.

The rest of the filing gadgets are foreign to me as an of-sharpener of saws in the middle of actual use. Far and away, I will sharpen a large rip saw 5 to 8 times for sharpening any other saws in sum. It takes about 3 minutes to resharpen a long rip saw, maybe five if it was allowed to get past where it should've been in dullness.

But buying a lot does enhance the imagining experience. I used to do it. It became really cumbersome to try to transition the "this will really be handy" tools to "this works well and quick", and that's a real problem.

Ozymandiaz

This is the ancient article I was trying to reference:

Saw Dictionary p12 set and joint.PNG

It can be made from any scrap you have lying around. You can dispense with the cove cutout if you wish and are short of time, as it is just a refinement. I used two screws instead of the one as shown in the picture.

Regards
Paul