Thread: Rob Cosman

Thanks to Rob and Jim for further clarification. A bit like SeanZ, I think I can sharpen a blade pretty well and my sole is flat but I do get inconsistent results, I don't for example get nice long ribbons of wood although that could have something to do with differing pressure applied along the length of the wood.

Rob, I for one would like to see that video of figured timber planed with the old Stanley, I'm sure others would too.

Give me a week or so, I'm back home for a few days next week. I the mean time I will look for some challenging stock. cheers
Rob

Originally Posted by Rob Cosman

Give me a week or so, I'm back home for a few days next week. I the mean time I will look for some challenging stock. cheers
Rob

I reckon we should give Rob something really challenging - like some figure ironbark. Just look at the janka scores for someof our wood, then add in the high silica content and the gnarly grain and then you can set him a real challenge. Anyone prepared to send Rob a really nasty board?

For me, putting thumbsucker's replacement blades and cap irons into old Carter planes has set me up perfectly (esp when I adjusted the slot in the cap iron so that the adjuster yoke engaged better when the cap iron was set at 1mm from the blade edge). So I don't need to do anything more (and don't have the funds for more experiments).

Originally Posted by Tiger

Thanks to Rob and Jim for further clarification. A bit like SeanZ, I think I can sharpen a blade pretty well and my sole is flat but I do get inconsistent results, I don't for example get nice long ribbons of wood although that could have something to do with differing pressure applied along the length of the wood.

Rob, I for one would like to see that video of figured timber planed with the old Stanley, I'm sure others would too.

Hi Tiger

I also struggle to get "long ribbons of wood" on certain species. This is would you need to be aware of - sometimes it is the wood and not the plane/blade set up. Jarrah, for example, has interlocked shorter grain. Below is an example of the common shavings I get (sometimes I obtain nice, long shavings, but the following are much more typical) ..

BU smoother with 60 degree cutting angle on Jarrah ..



Marcou smoother with 60 degree cutting angle on Rock Maple .. OK, this is into the grain!



Same plane on Tassie Oak, this time with the grain ...



Hi Rob

Thanks for your reply.

I would not just welcome you to add a video of planing interlocked wood, but urge you to do so! What may have begun in Australia has now filtered to the forums in other countries, that is, that high cutting angles improve the outcomes when planing interlocked woods. If you wish to convince woodworkers that thicker plane blades have a similar upgrade effect, then this needs to be demonstrated.

I missed all the forum debating on the blades (at SMC) as I was away at the time (then it was yanked from the forum). So I have no idea what was/was not said (other than it got heated).

Analytically, I see your blade/cap iron combo as a good design, and my reservations are only linked to the issue of the cutting angle - I am not a fan of backbevels on common pitch planes - they work but introduce more sharpening issues. Can you make a silk purse out of a sows ear? That is the question!

Regards from Perth

Derek

Morning Derek, the idea behind the blade/breaker improvement is to bring an old Stanley/Record up to the same level of performance as a current veritas or lie-nielsen. My biggest surprise in converting 20 of these old planes was how far out of flat the face of the frog was. Set a thin blade on an uneven surface and there was no chance those tools could survive hard wood. I spend no more than 15 minutes undressing the frog (including removing the lateral adjustment lever) and truing the face and contact points underneath. Five minutes to open the throat to accept the thicker blade, five minutes to fix the mating contact points and 20 to 30 minutes to do the sole, viola, performance. The extra weight of the premium planes is a nice addition as well as the much more convenient means of throat adjustment. Everything on the older planes was a bit sloppy, however for someone just starting out or needing to be converted to hand tools, having an old hand-me-down that can be transformed is the best way to move them into our space. The IBC blade/breaker comes less than a minute away from sub thou shavings once you have tuned the plane. The DVD that comes with the set includes detailed instructions on sharpening using a Norton 1k/8k combination stone (I think the least expensive gear and easiest to maintain). If you follow the sharpening instructions (THE KEY) success awaits.

Now how far can we push these old tools is another story, I have replaced my lie-nielsen 5 1/2 with an old stanley 5 1/2, always wondered why Charlesworth used one. I love this tool, the rear tote is so comfortable, I took the time to repaint and refinish the woodwork and still had less than 2 hours into it. I think the only limitation in dealing with crazy wood will be not having a higher angle of attack. Derek you need to order one of these and try it yourself. Get back to you with my findings. Cheers
Rob

The IBC Blade at 2.45mm will fit the mouth of most Planes. If the Iron is too thick, an alternative to filing the mouth is to set the Face of the Frog back behind the rear of the Mouth and grind the heel of the Bevel (of the Blade) at an angle lesser than 25 so that it won't interfere with the back of the Mouth.
I have a shipment of IBC Irons and IBC/Cosman Double Irons in transit at present - expected to arrive here next week.

Take Care and Stay Sharp,
Jim

Originally Posted by Rob Cosman

I spend no more than 15 minutes undressing the frog (including removing the lateral adjustment lever) and truing the face and contact points underneath. Five minutes to open the throat to accept the thicker blade, five minutes to fix the mating contact points and 20 to 30 minutes to do the sole, viola, performance. The extra weight of the premium planes is a nice addition as well as the much more convenient means of throat adjustment. Everything on the older planes was a bit sloppy, however for someone just starting out or needing to be converted to hand tools, having an old hand-me-down that can be transformed is the best way to move them into our space. The IBC blade/breaker comes less than a minute away from sub thou shavings once you have tuned the plane. The DVD that comes with the set includes detailed instructions on sharpening using a Norton 1k/8k combination stone (I think the least expensive gear and easiest to maintain). If you follow the sharpening instructions (THE KEY) success awaits.

I think the people just starting out or wanting to convert to hand tools should understand that your mileage may vary on Rob's fettling times. Maybe Stanley shipped all their bent planes to Australia and kept all the straight ones in North America, but I've never been able to flatten a sole in anything approaching 20-30 minutes or match a frog to a plane in 5 minutes. I'm sold on fitting a heavier blade of course, but putting marketing hyperbole aside, it takes a fair bit longer than that to get a hand-me-down or a car boot find up to speed, in my experience.
On the skills and talent bell curve I sit under the label Mr (very) average, whereas Rob is nearer to super hero, so if you are up there, you can probably match these times too.

Cheers
Michael

If I understand this correctly, I can buy a nice thick 'Cosman' A2 blade and chipbreaker for $100 - and put it in my old Stanley Bailey #4 or #5 - that is maybe worth (or will cost) $50. $150 total.

Or I can buy a brand new Bedrock design (not Bailey design) Woodriver #4, with a 0.125"/3.2mm iron and thick breaker, for $120. And maybe later put in one of Helmut's M2 irons for $45. $165 total - plus have a 'leftover' 3.2mm WR iron...

(And, if I have one, sell my old Bailey 'as is' for $50 or so - to go toward it)

Anyone care to give me a good argument why the WR is not the rational choice here? Are the WR irons garbage maybe?

What do I miss seeing?

Chris

Irons in them is HCS, said to be Rc60-64 on the Woodcraft website. And of course you're stuck with std pitch unless you want to backbevel.

Edit: say AUD 210 landed for a #5

Backbevel??? Is that what you have to do if you don't own any BU planes??

Extra blades to cover a variety of cutting angles don't cost much..... Also, the same blade (a monster thick one) fits three different sizes of Veritas BU plane (jointer, jack, smoother).

Preaching to the converted here Mr B.

That said, I have fun fettling Stanleys and don't count the cost of my time but do replace the irons. The WRs look like reasonable value but obviously can't match the patina of use an old plane has or the satisfaction of 'rebirthing' an old tool.

Ern - very true. The BU plane is your friend......

Actually, current production low- to mid-priced planes are about the only category that I wouldn't ever buy.....

I'd either get LV/LN straight up, or maybe get an older fettled Stanley from Jim Davey that you know is going to work very well, or up-blade an older Stanley yourself if you enjoy the fettling.

Stanley's recent attempt at an upmarket plane seems to have sunk without a trace, and at the prices they were asking why not just buy LV/LN and be done with it?

It's horses for courses.

If someone is just starting out and has a limited budget, and plan to make something out of pine or Mtn Ash, a fettled Stanley or two with original iron will do the job. Maybe a #4 and #6. They can fettle the planes themselves.

The shock about flatwork, as with turning, is the multipliers, esp the sharpening gear and everything else you need. Beginning turners who learn with me get told that with a cheap lathe it's a 1:2 multiplier, lathe : tools, chuck, sharpening and other accessories.

The fettled Stanley route gets flatwork beginners started. Then they can add a decent iron & chipbreaker. For cranky grain, a backbevel, moving the frog forward, or trying a cabinet scraper are low cost solutions.

The big hurdle, tho not as big as suggested IMO, is learning how to sharpen and being prepared to do it regularly.

I have been holding off on this discussion as from my point of view I am new to sharpening a plane. I originally purchased my first old Stanley number 4 plane about fours years ago. It took me three years to get around to actually sharpen it. Now with original blade I am getting shavings.

I have been looking for an old Stanley number 5 plane for months now with no success. I will add that budget is not always the best and has a limit. I know I will come across one that will be right for me and much work will have to be done by me to get this tuned. Most of the knowledge has come from what I have been reading from these forums.

So this discussion has given me more to think about and maybe even try.