Thread: A few old saws

Thanks Ian, for such an immediate response.
I'm with you, the old handle is not that great and would definitely be prone to breakage, so I reckon a full rebuild, but that's up to you Dave?
New Disston shape as Paul suggest?
Pete

Originally Posted by Pittwater Pete

Thanks Ian, for such an immediate response.
I'm with you, the old handle is not that great and would definitely be prone to breakage, so I reckon a full rebuild, but that's up to you Dave?
New Disston shape as Paul suggest?
Pete

I bestow upon you full artistic license. Its in black and white for all to see 😉

Dave TTC
Turning Wood Into Art

Pete

I am not sure of the wisdom in using vintage split nuts: I have at least a couple of reasons for saying this. The first is that they had ceased being used by around 1890 following the introduction of the Glover patent nuts in 1888( think modern style saw nut). This means that the newest split nuts will be around 125 years old. They were fragile in the first place and frequently the threads are rounded off. Many people are reluctant to remove them in the first place in case they either break in removal or cannot be re-tightened satisfactorily after work on the saw.

Secondly the shaft on those split nuts is about half the diameter of modern saw nuts so not only is it inherently weak, it will be a very sloppy fit in Dave's modern sawplate as the holes will be too big.

I could certainly provide you with modern style sawnuts (Glover patent) and maybe a medallion (I would suggest a Warrented Superior as I have nothing with the manufacturers name for Dave's saw).

If you are set on the split nut style I would take up Ian's offer but be sure to supply him with the diameter of the holes in the saw plate. He does an excellent job.

On the subject of handles, I would choose something I liked and make a paper copy: Then place it over the sawplate and see if it will fit both in terms of sufficient timber to clamp to the plate and orientation of the hand hole. A little bit of wiggling may suffice for orientation of the hole and the shape can then be modified to suit.

The issue you will find is that the cut away on Dave's saw is quite extreme. The old style handles, which to my mind were the most beautiful of all and indeed hail from the split nut era, were usually fitted to a plate that was stamped out almost square.

Below is are two Disston No.12s to demonstrate this:

Re-handling saw plates 001.jpg

Below is a Simonds No.72 with a more modern (1906 - 1919) skewback plate and a close coupled handle.

Re-handling saw plates 002.jpgRe-handling saw plates 003.jpg

It is approaching Dave's pattern but not really there. If you find some difficulty in matching up suitable handles, I would be inclined to copy a paper outline of the original handle and then "develop" it from there towards something more aesthetic. I agree with Ian's comment regarding the grip. It doesn't quite look like it was intended with a human hand in mind. Perhaps it was designed by a robot for a robot .

I also noticed that there is a slot at the top of the plate, which probably locates in a moulding in the handle. You may be able to use that for a fourth saw nut, but check that it doesn't bring the nut too close to the edge of the handle as it won't look right.

Regards
Paul

Hmmm. From Paul's most excellent and extremely detailed response, I think you need to give me exact measurements of the saw plate and hole positions Dave.
Actually, don't bother because the handle splits into two halves. That's convenient.
I'll do some shape research tonight, otherwise I won't get any work done today and Dirk will dock my wages.
Pete.

Does this help



And one measurement was cropped out



Holes appear to be 5.5 as best i can make it out and slot 8mm wide



Dave TTC
Turning Wood Into Art

Dirks not watching at present.

You blokes are onit!

One thing I meant to mention was the templates available and there are links in posts #94 and #96. There are some absolute beauties there: If you can make them fit....

Regards
Paul

Originally Posted by Pittwater Pete

Dirks not watching at present.

Don't get the sack now.


Dave TTC
Turning Wood Into Art

Oh my measurements are with a tape and an unaided 45 year old eye. Thats counting some time in the womb

Dave TTC
Turning Wood Into Art

Originally Posted by Bushmiller

You blokes are onit!

One thing I meant to mention was the templates available and there are links in posts #94 and #96. There are some absolute beauties there: If you can make them fit....

Regards
Paul

Thanks Paul.
Could you please let me know a short list. It could save me some stuff ups.
Thanks
Pete.

Originally Posted by DaveTTC

Oh my measurements are with a tape and an unaided 45 year old eye. Thats counting some time in the womb

Dave TTC
Turning Wood Into Art

We won't rely on them then.

Originally Posted by Pittwater Pete

Thanks Paul.
Could you please let me know a short list. It could save me some stuff ups.
Thanks
Pete.

Pete

I'm not sure anything I can do will be stuff up proof, but I did have a quick look.

On the Blackburn site the Atkins Perfection handle and The Simonds No.7 looks likely candidates.

However the TGIAG site is better for this type of thing and coincidentally the first saw there is also the Atkins Perfection handle. This has to be an omen .

I looked at it and realised that the slope of the handle follows Dave's saw, but not exactly. I printed out a perfection handle and put it up to the split pix of the handle you posted. It looks as though it would fit without very much modification. When I mentioned in an earlier post about development, I meant the extending of the timber parts to make sure they cover the holes.

Firstly though the alignment of the hand hole has to be matched to the original and then the timber added to if needed. Remember that just because the holes are "in timber" it doesn't mean the handle is large enough as the heads of the nuts add considerably to the diameter and if too close to the edge of the handle they look odd. Also allow a little for gentle rounding of the front of the handle.

I mention these points because both are errors I have made. The other major consideration is the slot in the handle for the plate. It is convenient if you can fit the handle with a single straightline cut, but it must not cut through the lower guard into the hand hole. This may be another area to "develop" the handle by building wood.

In the past I have made a "rough" from a bit of second grade radiata pine (being easier to cut and file than a hardwood), but of late I just bite the bullet as I don't think I have enough time to make up a sculptor's maquette each time. I'd need to live to 125 years old and I don't think that's likely .

You could look at others in the same way. Surprisingly the WMC No.24 looks like another candidate. I think that is one of the most spectacular handles in existence and despite it saying it is a rip they used it on their crosscut saws too. However I am not sure it would look appropriate on Dave's saw. I would certainly try a pattern against it.

This is how it looks in the flesh:

WMC No.999 8ppi crosscut.jpg

and this is the same saw sold recently on Ebay:

RARE 1880's Wheeler Madden Clemson No 999 26" 8PPI x Cut Hand Saw Hand Filed | eBay

Actually the No.24, when I look more closely, is much more raked than the saw above, but it's so nice I'll leave it there .

There may be other saw handle patterns that would suit, but these are to hand.

Also I have to say that the Atkins Perfection handle although sounding incredibly immodest probably was close to "prefection." It is so comfortable to use. Atkins used it on many of their saws including Nos. 68, 69, 65, 53 and of course their 400/401 saws which were their top of the line saws and the most expensive made at the time (pre WW1).

I hope that helps.

Regards
Paul

Was trying to work out why it doesnt look like you on the reflection Paul. Then i realised yiu are holding the camera with two hands

Dave TTC
Turning Wood Into Art

Step 1: select a piece of wood

Done. That was hard work, I better stop now, don't want to wear myself out.