Thread: Backsaw sharpening & Saw till - for beginners

and unmistakably an aussie doing a quick derust and restore on a not-so-ancient Disston handsaw.

and ... an interesting take on Radiata Pine. Plus a nice design.

[QUOTE=pmcgee;1858686]and unmistakably an aussie doing a quick derust and restore on a not-so-ancient Disston handsaw./QUOTE]

Paul, if you warm the saw blade either with a hair dryer or placing in the sun, and then put the oil on - and then warm again, I think you will find the rust stays away longer.
Cheers
Peter

Paul - it's good to see someone with no experience having a go at sharpening his saw, and getting a tolerable result. I liked his 'quick & dirty' saw clamp, hadn't seen such a simple one before, & well worth filing in the memory bank.

Couple of points I'd like to make:

First up, I'd suggest you don't waste time with altered rake or pitch if you are a beginner at saw sharpening, it will only cause you unnecessary bother, and from the clumsy way he starts his saw at the end of the clip, it hasn't helped at all, in this case. It is a seductive idea, and I tried mucking about with such 'refinements' a few years back, but have firmly concluded that they are simply not necessary. If you are having trouble starting a well-sharpened saw, more practice will be much more beneficial than altering the rake or pitch of the toe teeth, imo.

Second - At no point is the tpi of the saw in the video mentioned, nor do we get a close-up view of the teeth (unless I blinked & missed it), but from the size of the saw, it would typically be a minium of 12 tpi, probably finer, originally. The file he is using looks like it's about a 6" and not a very slim one at that, and therefore too big for that size of tooth. The reason for using shorter, extra-slim and double extra-slim files on small teeth is to keep tooth & gullet sizes in proportion. The longer & fatter the file, the greater the corner radii. Tring to make teeth with large corner radii creates funny little teeth between wide, shallow gullets. Such teeth can function ok, if accurately cut, but you'll find it very hard to keep the rake angles & gullet depths constant, especially if you are inexperienced at saw filing.

Third, he seems to be having a deal of trouble with his file catching at the beginning of each stroke. This is mostly on the first stroke, which increases my suspicion that his file is too fat for the size tooth he is filing, and catching on the tips of teeth because it is not sitting down & cutting the full length of the tooth as the correct size of file would do. That, or he is pressing too hard on the toe of the file at the start of his strokes, or else his file teeth are chipped, which renders it almost useless for this job. Having the file catch like that is highly counter-productive, because it is almost impossible to achieve regular, even cuts One or two firm even strokes per tooth is all it takes to re-sharpen a saw which is dull, but otherwise in fairly good shape - just apply enough pressure on the file to keep it cutting nicely. If more extensive tooth shaping is required, it's better to give just one or two strokes per tooth until all the points are sharp. Try to finish your last pass on each tooth with a short, very light stroke to smooth the metal & reduce burrs to a minimum.

Lastly don't use a file without putting some sort of handle on it - just about anything is better than nothing! I like a short, bulbous handle that fits into the palm of my hand for saw files, but it's a matter of personal taste, some people prefer longer handles:file handle.jpg

Apart from the minor risk of shoving the tang into the palm of your hand when the file catches, it just makes the file so much easier to control & keep a constant rake angle...

Not meant to be hypercritical, just a few helpful pointers, I hope. As I said, it's good to see people having a go and helps to demystify the process. I'm sure with a bit of care and an appropriate file or two, almost anyone can keep their saws cutting reasonably well....
Cheers,

Yes ... I had meant to say ... maybe not for your Veritas or LN backsaw

... but definitely for the $5 garage sale job ... whether split-nuts or rivets ... to get in and 'ave a go.



Paul

Aaaaaaagh.......Paul I had to watch twelve videos to see the final result of the saw till. I looked at the No.1 video and thought, "this isn't going to hold much. Then I realised it was only a cardboard mock up .

I had a specific interest in saw tills, but no, I didn't watch all the videos: Just No.1 and exerts from No.12 as I am all videoed out having watched your epic log cut from start to finish. 22min?


I have a saw till in the pipeline to supplement this temporary affair.

Collection pix 004.jpg

Just made from plastic covered formply, scraps of timber and a fifty to sixty year old piece of 3/4" gal pipe that has been painted (partially). Currently hold 36 saws.

The other saws are in four timber crates. I won't be keeping them all; the saws that is, not the crates, which I will keep (just in case ).

The saws in the picture are all Simonds with the exception of a Bay State interloper (which was made by Simonds anyway) and a Thomas Turner back saw, which belonged to my father. It is allowed in the exulted Simonds company for sentimental reasons.

Oh, and there are two Wilkie back saws in there too. Similar story, they are too precious to leave elsewhere .

Regards
Paul

Originally Posted by Bushmiller

Aaaaaaagh....... as I am all videoed out having watched your epic log cut from start to finish. 22min?
Paul

You need to get out more.

Originally Posted by Bushmiller

Aaaaaaagh.......Paul I had to watch twelve videos to see the final result of the saw till. I looked at the No.1 video and thought, "this isn't going to hold much. Then I realised it was only a cardboard mock up .

I had a specific interest in saw tills, but no, I didn't watch all the videos: Just No.1 and exerts from No.12 as I am all videoed out having watched your epic log cut from start to finish. 22min?

Just made from plastic covered formply, scraps of timber and a fifty to sixty year old piece of 3/4" gal pipe that has been painted (partially). Currently hold 36 saws.

I have a saw till in the pipeline to supplement this temporary affair.

Collection pix 004.jpg

The other saws are in four timber crates. I won't be keeping them all; the saws that is, not the crates, which I will keep (just in case ). The saws in the picture are all Simonds with the exception of a Bay State interloper (which was made by Simonds anyway) and a Thomas Turner back saw, which belonged to my father. It is allowed in the exulted Simonds company for sentimental reasons.

Oh, and there are two Wilkie back saws in there too. Similar story, they are too precious to leave elsewhere .

Regards
Paul

Hi Paul. You just need one of my backsaws to complete the set.

Stewie;

Originally Posted by pmcgee

Yes ... I had meant to say ... maybe not for your Veritas or LN backsaw

... but definitely for the $5 garage sale job ... whether split-nuts or rivets ... to get in and 'ave a go.



Paul

Speaking as someone who is building up (incredibly slowly) to sharpening my own saws, I found the video encouraging. When you start to research something you know nothing about, you're flooded with information and I have a tendency to get caught up in all the detail, wanting to achieve perfect results the first time I try, and it was refreshing to see someone who is just a weekend hacker like me giving it a go, and making an improvement, even though he didn't achieve perfection.

if I hadn't moved house and mislaid the saw files I bought, I'd be out there now sharpening something of other.

It was also good to read Ian's critique, hopefully I'll make one of two less mistakes when I do cut loose.

And last, I did like his quick and dirty saw clamp. Definitely something worth learning about.

Originally Posted by pmcgee

You need to get out more.

I do indeed: Have you considered making shorter videos?

Regards
Paul

Originally Posted by Bushmiller

I do indeed: Have you considered making shorter videos?
Regards
Paul

The popular request is that they be kept down to under a second.

Collection pix 004.jpg

Those two back saws (in the middle) - I bet they don't get used often

Cheers, Vann.

thanks
will look at them shortly (done now - interesting)
I'm in the process of building my first till. Won't be anywhere as big as Paul's temporary one though

I'll take some piccys when I make more progress - this week as the lads are back at school Monday/Tuesday
I've milled the timber (old cedar door frames and started the dovetails)

I've got to finish it so I have somewhere safe to put the restored saws as I finish them

Originally Posted by planemaker

Hi Paul. You just need one of my backsaws to complete the set.

Stewie;

Stewie

Agreed. Just send it over.

I will make space on the back wall of the till. My preference is for a fine tooth crosscut as I am well catered for in the rip department, but the truth is anything surplus to your requirements would be treasured .

Regards
Paul