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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmcgee View Post
    Bad news I'm afraid ... I knew something had been bugging me reading down the page ...

    looks like you've copped a 76 with your #7 marked saw.

    It'll need to be separated from the rest ... maybe sent to WA for safety



    Which would point to a #76 Centennial ... http://www.disstonianinstitute.com/76page.html ... I think.
    Paul

    Right on the money. Awfully good of you to offer to take it off Nick's hands for, presumeably, next to nothing. Maybe just the freight?

    Regards
    Paul
    Bushmiller;

    "Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"

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  3. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmcgee View Post

    The wheat-carved s&j handle might be a step up from the 'standard' saw ...
    can we see the blade more closely after the elec please?
    Paul

    I have started a new thread as I was about to steal Nick's thunder. However, I am very grateful to Nick for kicking this one away in the first place and will follow it eagerly.

    https://www.woodworkforums.com/showth...43#post1747843

    Regards
    Paul
    Bushmiller;

    "Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"

  4. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmcgee View Post
    Bad news I'm afraid ... I knew something had been bugging me reading down the page ...

    looks like you've copped a 76 with your #7 marked saw.

    It'll need to be separated from the rest ... maybe sent to WA for safety

    The medallion on the mainline Disstons is only at the bottom for the wheat-carved#16 ...
    and the sticky-out handle is for #7s ... but yours is smooth-shaped like a sticky-out D8 handle.
    And I'm pretty sure it is applewood not beech?

    Which would point to a #76 Centennial ... http://www.disstonianinstitute.com/76page.html ... I think.

    If I'm right about the model #, ... and that medallion is original, ... it would pin it down to 1917-20
    (assuming I read correctly ... does it say "phila" rather than "philida"?)

    Cheers,
    Paul

    PS ... I put some links somwhere here recently on rehabs. One guy used two opposing wedges through the grip to open up the handle crack to get the glue in.
    then as per usual, easy-peasy.
    thanks for the offer of safekeeping

    nut says Philada

    and I have no idea what the tote timber is
    regards
    Nick
    veni, vidi,
    tornavi
    Without wood it's just ...

  5. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sawdust Maker View Post
    thanks for the offer of safekeeping
    Only thinking of you.
    nut says Philada
    Ok ... then 1896-1917

  6. #65
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    Default Saw #7 - Disston 76 Centennial?

    Paul earlier indicated this might be a no 76 Centennial (post no 60)

    I had arrived at a similar conclusion (but then what would I know) (post no 56, hmm a typo 76 not 86)

    and I was a bit unsure because of this comment from the distonian website "The No. 76 was sold until about 1920. It's not nearly so commonly found as the No. 7, D-8, or even the No. 12 models."
    Not commonly found and I pick one up in an ebay purchase, yeah right

    Anyway I thought I'd have a closer look at it today
    Then I decided that because of the rust I'd better give it a clean (and if it is a bit rare didn't want it to deteriorate any further)
    I've only used sandpaper and WD-40 at the moment, started with 400, used 320 in places. There is still a bit of work t do on it.

    Took the handle off no problems but I did notice that the sawnuts were different sizes, hmmm
    The top nut is smaller then the others. It looks similar but has a smaller diameter. 12.28mm compared to 14.75mm (31/64" as to 37/64")
    The nut for the medallion is the same size as that of the two larger nuts.
    I've taken a photograph of the tote. The medallion seems to be sitting on the timber and not sitting in the recess (don't know what to make of this)

    #7 tote_4324.jpg#7 tote_4326.jpg#7 nuts_4318.jpgSaw no7 Disston & Sons_3654.jpgoriginal handle photo for comparision etc purposes

    The clean picked up an etch which surprised me as I could see any indication of one before. It is difficult to see, I've taken a couple of piccies to give you an idea
    I think I can see a 76 there (but could be having a lend of myself)

    #7 etch contrast_4310.jpg#7 etch_4300.jpg#7 etch_4303.jpg

    The clean disclosed some pitting, quite bad in places. And of course the reverse side is better than the etch side.

    #7 1st clean_4311.jpg#7 1st clean_4315.jpg

    Looking at the rust marks I think the saw may have been wrapped in plastic at some stage and water got in and was held there.
    regards
    Nick
    veni, vidi,
    tornavi
    Without wood it's just ...

  7. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sawdust Maker View Post
    Not commonly found and I pick one up in an ebay purchase, yeah right
    The differences between saws can be subtle ... the more you get an eye for the differences, the better your chances.

    I think I can see a 76 there (but could be having a lend of myself)
    Yep. 100%. There was one on Oz ebay last year, but the owner didn't know it/didn't put it in the description.
    But it sold in the $70-80 region because myself and someone else had seen what it was.
    I didn't win it either.

    Four new saws (hmm 60+ yo maybe)-7-etch_4300-jpg


  8. #67
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    Paul

    Sorry on re-reading my post it looks like I was having a dig at you

    Na, not the case.

    More a dig at life in that I half expect Murphy to enter triumphant and show that the saw is a bitzer and cobbled together from spare parts to confuse the unwary I'm not generally lucky with this kind of thing,

    Quote Originally Posted by pmcgee View Post
    The differences between saws can be subtle ... the more you get an eye for the differences, the better your chances.


    Yep. 100%. There was one on Oz ebay last year, but the owner didn't know it/didn't put it in the description.
    But it sold in the $70-80 region because myself and someone else had seen what it was.
    I didn't win it either.
    So you can see the 76 as well, good

    So I'll put it up on fleabay and hope you and your mate start a bidding war over it
    regards
    Nick
    veni, vidi,
    tornavi
    Without wood it's just ...

  9. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sawdust Maker View Post
    Paul
    Sorry on re-reading my post it looks like I was having a dig at you
    Na, not the case.
    More a dig at life in that I half expect Murphy to enter triumphant and show that the saw is a bitzer and cobbled together from spare parts to confuse the unwary I'm not generally lucky with this kind of thing,
    I didn't get that feel from you ... it's always good to have an unexpected win.
    So I'll put it up on fleabay and hope you and your mate start a bidding war over it
    But I can see you are a twisted, evil character.
    Paul

  10. #69
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    I have finally reached the end of the Lumberjocks thread "Saws, using collecting, cleaning and buying" as alluded to in post number 14

    only took 20 days - trouble is that it only got longer as I went

    There is one hell of a lot of information in the thread (and a few digressions) and I think my saw knowledge has increased exponentially (starting from an admittedly low base)

    anyway have a read it was an interesting exercise.
    regards
    Nick
    veni, vidi,
    tornavi
    Without wood it's just ...

  11. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmcgee View Post
    There is a whole debate over the sloped gullets idea ... that maybe has died down a bit now. I think Michael Merlo and Daryl Weir have had words over it.
    Brent Beach has modelled it in SketchUp, and Isaac Smith of Blackburn Tools has included it (from the pov of Point Slope) on his webpage.
    At the bottom he links to Brent Beach, Leif Hanson and more from himself. Blackburn Tools - saw tooth geometry

    Eg, even of Leif's page he says you can't "have sloping gullets on a rip-filed saw". I don't believe that is true, unless you have a very narrow definition of what a rip tooth can look like.

    There's also discussion about whether it is "traditional". The guys at Colonial Williamsburg use saws without fleam (so only degrees of rake) as they understand that fleam was not used in their period (1700-1780). In fact ... see their saws! The Saw Wright | Peter Follansbee, joiner's notes

    By 1900 or so, with machine sharpening predominating, there wouldn't be any sloping happening there either ... and after that the handsaw was used less and less.

    I haven't seen any of the wooden held-in-a-bench-vice type saw vices that tilt over that I can remember, but some of the portable, stand-on-the-floor-and-put-your-foot-on-to-stabilise ones held the saw over at an angle ... Roy Underhill has one in a video.
    And some of the cast-iron saw-vices tilt over, so filing flat would give you a sloped gullet.

    I know very little about backsaws and little teeth, but when teeth are small enough, rip vs xcut starts to become a non-issue ... probably the same for slope I'm guessing. I'd like to know more about it and experiment when I can ... I believe I gathered a text file of links to make a thread about at some stage.

    Cheers,
    Paul
    Paul

    Paul

    My humble apologies. Somehow I missed this post, but what a beauty it is. As if saw sharpening hasn't already been done to death this question has opened up another can of worms.

    This link of yours to Brent Beach is particularly illuminating

    http://www3.telus.net/BrentBeach/saw...20gullets.html

    I think your assertion that the advent of machine sharpening may have killed off the sloped gullet could well be on the money. And money would have been the key as labour had started to become expensive and the easiest way to cut cost was to dispense with people. (We are still doing it in 2014).

    I suspect you could open another new thread on this subject, but I'll leave it to you.

    Regards
    Paul
    Bushmiller;

    "Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"

  12. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmcgee View Post

    I know very little about backsaws and little teeth, but when teeth are small enough, rip vs xcut starts to become a non-issue ... probably the same for slope I'm guessing.

    Cheers,
    Paul
    Paul

    Just on this particular point I wonder if slope isn't more important. I have two reasons for mentioning this. The first is that if we cut a thick section of timber we tend to adjust the angle of the saw so it cuts more efficiently. Intuitively we are correcting for the saw "loading" up (more teeth in the cut) and probably clogging with extra sawdust. Secondly, I saw a reference in your link to sloped gullets having a particular application for mitre box saws. In that case it would be a fine tooth saw in contact with a wide timber surface.

    Perhaps more need for efficient chip removal. In theory I can see this. To my mind a big question is whether this is detectable in practice.

    Regards
    Paul
    Bushmiller;

    "Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"

  13. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sawdust Maker View Post
    I have finally reached the end of the Lumberjocks thread "Saws, using collecting, cleaning and buying" as alluded to in post number 14

    only took 20 days - trouble is that it only got longer as I went

    There is one hell of a lot of information in the thread (and a few digressions) and I think my saw knowledge has increased exponentially (starting from an admittedly low base)

    anyway have a read it was an interesting exercise.

    Nick

    Did you get to Brit*al's (Andy) video? It's good too.

    Regards
    Paul
    Bushmiller;

    "Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"

  14. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushmiller View Post
    Nick

    Did you get to Brit*al's (Andy) video? It's good too.

    Regards
    Paul
    Yep, thanks
    in a sense I watched it before he made it

    here's a link to his blog on it if anyone's curious - the video link is down towards the bottom of the blog
    Get supplies in as it goes for more than 2 1/4 hours

    It is very informative and highly interesting and quite well done
    regards
    Nick
    veni, vidi,
    tornavi
    Without wood it's just ...

  15. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmcgee View Post
    ...

    PS ... I put some links somwhere here recently on rehabs. One guy used two opposing wedges through the grip to open up the handle crack to get the glue in.
    then as per usual, easy-peasy.
    Just tried that on the 76 (#7)
    didn't want to force it too much but got it open enough to work some glue in with a brush
    clamped up at the moment will see how it holds come tomorrow
    The handle is pretty knocked about but since it's probably original and a rarish saw I'll give it a light sand

    what is the recommended finish
    I see Andy Brit or (Brit*al) uses BLO and then a 2:1:1 (oil based varnish, BLO, turps) mix over the top a couple of times

    what do others use?
    Or what should I use on this old, presumably, apple?
    regards
    Nick
    veni, vidi,
    tornavi
    Without wood it's just ...

  16. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sawdust Maker View Post
    what is the recommended finish
    I see Andy Brit or (Brit*al) uses BLO and then a 2:1:1 (oil based varnish, BLO, turps) mix over the top a couple of times

    what do others use?
    Or what should I use on this old, presumably, apple?
    I have the same question? In fact the bare apple is a rather bland finish. Did the likes of Disston apply stain or did they rely on the surface treatment (BLO, other oils, wax etc) imparting the colour?

    The problem I see is the original handle gives no room to test the finish short of using an old, similar-timbered, sacrificial handle.

    Regards
    Paul
    Bushmiller;

    "Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"

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