Thread: Scraping a Plane - shocked at the speed

Originally Posted by auscab

The edge on HPF's bit has a curve. So a curve works ? And does the amount of curve matter? My carbide bits have a greater curve than that below I think? They are Ex thicknesser blades. The square knicker blades may be straight edged, Ill have to check.

Attachment 535793

Rob

Yes it really must have a radius. This gives clearance to work on specific spots and to stop the corner catching. You can move to a different part of the edge once one part is dull too, thus extending the time between honing. If you look back to the reply I made with the photo of my kit you'll see a photo of how I hone. The radius of the edge is about the length of the arm of the scraper. OH sorry, that reply is in the thread on scraping #5 video!

There are decorative techniques called frosting and flaking that a radius on the edge is required. Frosting and Flaking (By Hand Scraping)

Here's that image
scraperhone.JPG

how much is enough? Just a little bit more. here is a 6 that I never really lapped or check closely. when i got it, I put it on the lap for a bit, but it was existing here as a heavy use plane, and because it's not a type that I use for that, it never got that heavy use. I have a second 6 that I flattened more carefully, but this one wasn't far out.

This is early work - I made fluid this time out of mineral oil so it doesn't dry, but I laid it on just a bit too thick, so you see some wet stuff at the bottom corner. This was solved as the plane got closer to flat by just having less on the stone.
wp-17089861668218958181925331477216.jpg

Part of the way in:
wp-17089862353289180221250258340281.jpg

The plane after about an hour of scraping - I can see where my biases are. the bright spots are where the final stoning touches the most.

wp-17090502961228909853389949830975.jpg

the slight twist is gone. I could've gotten very close to the same result with the lap and straight edges, but this is just a more pleasant process vs. constantly checking the straight edge to make sure there isn't a tiny bit of dirt somewhere on it, or on the sole of the plane, or whatever else, that's giving an odd reading - and also constantly cleaning the plane bottom to do that check and holding up the plane and the straight edge going down every part of the sole and then diagonally across.

If I were going for perfection, I'd do another light marking of the sole and then take the edge and center bias out, but we're talking about small fractions of a thousandth, so not going to bother with it.

the other 6 that I lapped carefully was noticeably better on really fine work on edges, etc, but not in a way that you couldn't get by with this one - just that when a plane is just right, the fitting of joints to pretty much zero glue suction or whatever you'd like to call it - lightfast with no spring - is easier of the plane is right. It just appears at the same time you're truing or cleaning up the edge, and not as some separate step of stop shavings, etc.

DW it is looking really good, whack a really sharp blade in it and report back! Are you starting to get an addiction? I'm glad I have you to take the baton for convincing people of the advantages of scraping, that it is superior to lapping in ease and accuracy and that it's more than just a 'fetish'.

Originally Posted by mic-d

DW it is looking really good, whack a really sharp blade in it and report back! Are you starting to get an addiction? I'm glad I have you to take the baton for convincing people of the advantages of scraping, that it is superior to lapping in ease and accuracy and that it's more than just a 'fetish'.

After finishing the 6, i did another 4 last night. I think I've got just one other smoothing plane left- one that I forgot about. A rubber adjuster #4.

the 6 I did is my trusty user Type 20, the smoother that I use most of the time and was lapped. As expected, it was slightly relieved at the toe and heel. The surprise again was with the type 20, the casting was again very hard.

I have a lunch webinar that I only need to listen to intermittently, and may work that smoother over during lunch, but with linear strokes only. Why? I'm curious to see if there's any friction difference. It can be decorated at a later date.

Amazing just in four planes, I didn't know how many deep kind of ragged burr scratches I was getting in the first plane, or just how avoidable they were. There are just a few in the last plane, but they're shallower.

I also zipped the bottom of the plane down a scotchbrite belt. that smooths some of the scraping marks, but it also makes them less visible and really makes ragged-burr type scratches stand out!!

OK, five scraped. I'm not convinced that a light lap wouldn't improve performance a little bit due to biases, and make things smoother, but I don't have a lap set up right now and can apply that later. I'm talking about the lightest lapping on a dead flat lap with 220 grit, not anything that would break a sweat.

At any rate, I busted out an older norris 13 that I really like. It's a beater as far as wood goes and I don't have the heart to replace the wood - it's the real deal and while it really doesn't have significant value (maybe $250), it's a dandy user and original is original - I can make tools, I don't need to modify stuff that will never be original again.

ANYWAY......it scrapes like butter.

I remember seen Chris Schwarz talking about the original norris planes bagging on their design, but the reality is that very few of the modern infills are actually better planes. many don't have a double iron so they are instantly relegated to being substandard to the original norris.

The original has workmanlike handle and bun and was probably not that expensive compared to dovetail planes. Not sure of the widths offered, but mine is 2 1/4" and nicer to use than a stanley 4 1/2 with the caveat that if smoothing involves a bunch of depth adjustment, then the stanley would win.

But the supple casting almost suggests that it was intended to be trued. it's night and day vs the hard marples and stanley type 20 castings. The difference in material removal with a high 60s hardness HSS scraper bit is probably a factor of at least five or six. And maybe the intention to make it more legit for truing by hand didn't have to go any further than it being trued at the factory with files or grinding stones.

leave some planes for the rest of us!

one more....OK and probably there will be one more after this one....I think that'll be it.

This one is a spiers panel plane.

Wait, there will be two more after this one.

But this is a spiers panel plane with excellent unbroken original wood. You can't tell that based on the bottom, but these planes (dovetailed) often have missing iron - this one has a full original iron - terrible pitting on the sides - this one has some, but not much compared to normal - and bun or handle that's badly marked up or chipped off.

wp-17093258823307196694270488787968.jpg

This one is steel - the scraping is actually exposing some of the lines and tiny gaps for dovetails.

but it's scraping well.

Catch here, I'm using a file that I'm sharpening only with the belt sander, and I think I probably didn't need to buy a scraping tool. I have so many spent files that I could do 100 planes and finally retire some of those files (they're safe edge modified or whatever else). The file holds up about as well as the scraper blade, but it could also be that the steel on this plane is soft. I'll try the file on another #6 sometime in the next several days.

Once again, my bias for lapping - I lapped this one but never seriously - leaves the toe and heel a little proud of everything else. probably a couple of thousandths.

wp-17093266185401214267569212013711.jpg

received the carbide inserts today. To my surprise, they are not 25x25 mm but more like half an inch. They're $10 shipped for 10. I figured when I opened them, i'm sure there was something to indicate that in the listing but communication with different languages made it a mystery to a poor reader to me.

Then, I turned the pack over and was very surprised to see "made in japan" on the box and a mitsubishi materials sticker. I'll braise one to a steel rod tonight or tomorrow and see what it's like. The level of finish and crispness is interesting - i'm not a machinist and the amount of carbide stuff here is pretty slim - maybe limited to those weird little plastic scrapers that aren't that great compared to what you can just make to use yourself.