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  1. #1
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    Default Scrub plane maybe?

    G'day all.
    I working my way through the plane collection and discovered a 4 1/2 Carter (same as Stanley 4 1/2). It occurred to me that it might be useful as a scrub plane because its blade is thicker than a Stanley blade. Its in good condition. I've cleaned it up in the soup, put a couple coats of anti-rust cold gal primer on and finished it off with a very hard spray enamel (Gold). I've polished all the brass and steel bolts to a mirror finish. Sounds fugly but looks ok. Can anyone tell me the angle of a scrub plane blade and how it should be set up (or point me to some info)?
    Thanks
    If you never made a mistake, you never made anything!


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  3. #2
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    Default

    I think that cian perez link has an article on converting into a scrub. ??? There's and article somewhere....

    As a scrub takes really thick shavings, do you think a 4 1/2 (2 3/8" mouth) might be too wide?
    Usually scrubs are about 1" to 1 1/2" wide, with a 3-4 mm thick blade.
    Do you have a spare 4 or 5 in your box of goodies?

    I think the bed angle is as per a normal bench plane.
    Cheers,
    Clinton

    "Use your third eye" - Watson

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/clinton_findlay/

  4. #3
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    Default

    Hi Shedhand,

    I think you'll find the 4 1/2 would be too wide in use for efficiently removing waste even with a heavily cambered blade.

    I converted a 5 1/4, which works well. #3 planes also convert nicely. But I know people who have done #4 planes and like using them.

    Take care, Mike

  5. #4
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    Sheddy

    Aside from opening up the mouth, the other thing I thought that you did to make a scrub plane is to profile the blade edge so it is rounded by 1-3 mm (instead of being straight or crowned). This is briefly discussed in the Plane Blade Profile Article by Veritas.

    If you did this more radically with the 4 1/2, you would reduce the drag that would seem to be the main issue that Mike refers to - but then the plane is only taking a narrower cut so why waste all that width.

    Perhaps Clinton is right - tune a 4 to be a scrub plane. Then you can tune the 4 1/2 to be a perffect smoother!

    Jeremy
    Cheers

    Jeremy
    If it were done when 'tis done, then 'twere well it were done quickly

  6. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmk89 View Post
    Sheddy

    Aside from opening up the mouth, the other thing I thought that you did to make a scrub plane is to profile the blade edge so it is rounded by 1-3 mm (instead of being straight or crowned). This is briefly discussed in the Plane Blade Profile Article by Veritas.

    If you did this more radically with the 4 1/2, you would reduce the drag that would seem to be the main issue that Mike refers to - but then the plane is only taking a narrower cut so why waste all that width.

    Perhaps Clinton is right - tune a 4 to be a scrub plane. Then you can tune the 4 1/2 to be a perffect smoother!

    Jeremy
    Hmmm.. I only suggested the 4 1/2 because it was a Carter. I do have an old Falcon and an old Pope that are like Stanley 3's. On of them then? I'll see how the Carter 4 1/2 comes up as a smoother.
    Cheers and thanks for the pointers.
    If you never made a mistake, you never made anything!


  7. #6
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    Default Perfect smoother!

    Hi Sheddie
    I agree with jmk89, the 4 1/2 will be too wide to use as a scrub plane, and will near break your arm when you come to push it.
    Better to convert a nuber three with a wide mouth and preferably a thicker blade. You might find one like this in your box of tricks. If you don't mind changing the mouth forever, you can widen it yourself, but keep in mind that you won't be able to go back and use it as a smoother after you've done the surgery on it.
    Have a look at this link:
    http://www.inthewoodshop.org/methods/wwc03w.shtml

    Good luck.
    SG

  8. #7
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    Sheddie

    A #4 1/2 is far, far too wide. It is 2 3/8" wide and the average scrub plane blade is about half that width! The aim of a scrub plane is to cut deep, and this is easier to do with a narrow blade - especially in hard woods.

    Take a little time to read my review of the LV Router Plane as it discusses design as well.

    http://www.wkfinetools.com/contrib/d...lane/index.asp

    Regards from Perth

    Derek
    Visit www.inthewoodshop.com for tutorials on constructing handtools, handtool reviews, and my trials and tribulations with furniture builds.

  9. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by derekcohen View Post
    Sheddie

    A #4 1/2 is far, far too wide. It is 2 3/8" wide and the average scrub plane blade is about half that width! The aim of a scrub plane is to cut deep, and this is easier to do with a narrow blade - especially in hard woods.

    Take a little time to read my review of the LV Router Plane as it discusses design as well.

    http://www.wkfinetools.com/contrib/d...lane/index.asp

    Regards from Perth

    Derek
    Thanks everyone. Derek, others have mentioned widening the mouth of the plane to accommodate larger chips. What finished dimension should the mouth be. Also when the arc is described in your article it is referred to as 3". Is that inches or are you referring to degrees? Can you describe and/or show a pic of the belt grinding jig used in the wk fine tools review of scrub planes. What do you regard as the optimum weight of a standard scrub. Is it feasible to vary the weight for different timbers by way of the insertion of lead shot in the tote and knob? Sounds silly I know but just a thought.
    Cheers
    If you never made a mistake, you never made anything!


  10. #9
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    Scrub planes are haaaard work sheddy.

    A friend of mine told me to use a powered hand planer for that sort of thing. Then clean up after with the usual suspects

    not like me. I use a scrub ALL the time

    Big thick shavings though. Don't let them hit the floor ! you'll trip over them

    Anyway, I'M off to Canada ! (smiley things are fun arn't they !....oh look there's more.)

  11. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by apricotripper View Post
    Scrub planes are haaaard work sheddy.

    A friend of mine told me to use a powered hand planer for that sort of thing. Then clean up after with the usual suspects

    not like me. I use a scrub ALL the time

    Big thick shavings though. Don't let them hit the floor ! you'll trip over them

    Anyway, I'M off to Canada ! (smiley things are fun arn't they !....oh look there's more.)
    Prolly are hard work but i have couple of crappy planes i can experiment with. . CANADA.... . too close to the seppos...stay here mate. we all loves ya....
    If you never made a mistake, you never made anything!


  12. #11
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    Sheddy

    The average arc/radius is 3 inches.

    The article that describes grinding this is at http://www.wkfinetools.com/tUsing/ar...lade/index.asp

    Regards from Perth

    Derek
    Visit www.inthewoodshop.com for tutorials on constructing handtools, handtool reviews, and my trials and tribulations with furniture builds.

  13. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shedhand View Post
    Prolly are hard work but i have couple of crappy planes i can experiment with. ....
    Sheddy - scrubs are quite revealing tools. A narrow, lightish plane set up to take a deep, but not wide gouge, as Derek says, and used at about 45 degrees to the grain, can remove a startling amount of wood in a short time - look out you don't trip over the 'shavings', as Jake warns! (In a few woods like Australian cedar you can use them along the grain, but it's not advisable on anything with irregular grain, or you'll make an unholy mess.) Cutting across the grain cleaves the fibres so much more easily, and it also makes sense because you're usually working away at localised high spots, anyway.

    I use an old (very old!) #4. It's a pre lateral-adjuster, low front knob model, which has a much lighter casting than later models, so fits the bill well. I reckon one of the #3 lookalikes you mentioned would make an excellent staring point. Scrub planes are not high-tech - rough as guts is the desription that comes to mind when you behold a typical purpose-made model! I made a simple wooden jig to grind the arc on the blade, but you could do it freehand - it doesn't need to be pretty,or even all that sharp, it seems, to work surprisingly well. Though a sharp blade is ALWAYS better, of course!

    Cheers,
    IW

  14. #13
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    sorry if i sound a bit dense here but how do i get a 3" radius on a blade thats only 1 and a bit inches wide . Also how wide should the mouth be? I read Derek's articles but it doesn't mention the mouth.
    Cheers
    Sheddie the Dunce
    If you never made a mistake, you never made anything!


  15. #14
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    Default

    Also how wide should the mouth be? I read Derek's articles but it doesn't mention the mouth.
    Hi Sheddie

    Look at the pictures. These should help.

    Basically, since the aim of the scrub plane is to take as thick a shaving as possible, the mouth must be wide enough to accomodate this. Open it up a bit at a time until you are comfortable in this regard. It is not rocket science, that is, there is nothing precise about a scrub plane that will cause one to screw it up.

    Incidentally, in addition to the ones in the article (although the woodie is no more since I have just used the blade to drive an infill smoother), I also have a re-worked Stanley #3. This is useful for "delicate" hogging (if there is such a thing ) as the depth can be adjusted. A thick blade is much preferred since these planes take a hammering!

    Regards from Perth

    Derek
    Visit www.inthewoodshop.com for tutorials on constructing handtools, handtool reviews, and my trials and tribulations with furniture builds.

  16. #15
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    OK, I think I have enough info to go out and have a bash at manubutchering a No3 or two.... will post some progress shots. To the soup Gomez....
    If you never made a mistake, you never made anything!


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