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14th September 2019, 01:12 AM #1
Ever seen a Shouldering Plane or have any info on them ?
I Hadn't seen one before.
Then I went to visit a tool collector/ dealer a number of years ago and walked away with a Shouldering plane. Not much at all like a Shoulder Plane . He Collected Scottish Planes and had seen a lot more old boxes full than me, and described it as a Dovetail Plane, a rare thing to see and find in Old English tool boxes.
You generally see a lot More sliding dovetails in German Antique furniture than you do in English. And German dovetails plane show up . I saw new looking ones are available in the typical German wooden plane style the other day . see below.
German dovetail plane - Google Search
Ive got a book, The wooden Plane by John M Whelan which describes them as an English Shouldering Plane . Apparently this is the English name for them . The US Author says they are mostly called Dovetail Planes in the US. Its the only info I have seen on them so far. Ive been searching recently.
Interesting points from the book are .
A description of everything you see in my pictures.
Its described as side escarpment plane with a wedged a nicker .
They can usually be found with brass plating or angled steel plating covering the lower side.
They are frequently found shorter than a normal Rebate plane .
Good for Rebates ( Rabbets in book of course ) or recesses with limited access in furniture. Cleaning tenons for dovetail or half lap. It says especially good for cleaning sliding dovetails.
Nothing else has shown up after some short searching .
I had a need for adding an Oak rail into the center of the long table rails the other day . Its a pretty quick job for chisel . This did a neater job of it . A bit of candle wax, a shallow saw cut and it zipped it of nice and clean. The saw cut was quicker than setting a fence and the nicker and I was using it leaning over a bit.
.
Then I cut the wrong half of the dovetails off at the band saw, so what was the bottom was now the new top .. S##T ! It Happens . I fiddled it right.
Pictures .
Up Against a standard size Moulding plane.
IMG_2183.JPGIMG_2184.JPGIMG_2235a.jpg
I cant see a Makers mark . There is a J. Spence Under all those A. Millers's.
No J. Spence in My Book of names or A. Miller . Nothing else that looks like a makers mark.
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Its a good tool . Works well .
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67 degree internal angle .
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IMG_2186.JPG
Rob
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14th September 2019, 01:45 AM #2China
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The boss I did my apprenticeship with had 3 of them, among the set of about 180 other wooden moulding planes
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14th September 2019, 02:22 AM #3
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14th September 2019, 03:11 PM #4China
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Yes certainly did use them, part of the business was restoring antiques, they were very handy especially when we needed to re create a moulding inserted/scarfed part way along or at the end of a piece, very common on corners of table tops, side boards, picture frames etc.
Many times several planes were put into play to create one shape.
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15th September 2019, 07:41 PM #5
I have a habit of re-inventing wheels, only my first wheel wasn't as sophisticated as your shouldering plane, Rob. I wanted a plane to finesse router-cut sliding dovetails so made myself this small plane: D_tail plane 1.jpg
Although I'd never seen a 'shouldering plane', my effort was basically similar, a short body, though with a square, not skewed blade. It showed me why your plane has a steel sole & the metal side-plate- the acute corner of my plane wore quite quickly, despite being a reasonably hard wood. Because it was for cleaning up after a router had done the bulk of the work, rather than making the whole thing, I didn't bother with a nicker. On the couple of occasions I did use it to cut dovetails from scratch, I knifed the shoulder line heavily & clamped on a bit of wood for a fence. It worked out ok, but a nicker is a much better solution!
So I made another a few years later, and besides adding the (unnecessary) handle/tote, I skewed the blade, added a nicker & a metal skate to beef up the corner, and attached a fence & depth-stop. D_T plane a.jpg
As fate would have it, I've hardly used the thing since I finished it; just haven't done any sliding dovetails for a while, but it does work pretty well, and I'm sure I'm going to need it again someday soon....
Cheers,IW
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15th September 2019, 08:56 PM #6
I re-purposed a skew rebate plane into a dovetail plane in 2006. The article is here: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMad...ailPlane2.html
Later, I tarted it up - blame bloody IanW will all that brass work!
This has a nicker and an adjustable fence.
It's had quite a bit of use over the years. In its pre-tart form ..
Regards from Perth
DerekVisit www.inthewoodshop.com for tutorials on constructing handtools, handtool reviews, and my trials and tribulations with furniture builds.
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16th September 2019, 08:36 AM #7
Derek, I think HNT deserves the blame (or credit?) for inspiring your brasswork - I'm the Johnny-come-lately to the fancy dovetailing plane scene..
So Rob, I meant to ask, does a dovetailing plane become a 'shouldering plane' when you delete the fence & depth stop? That seems to be about the only difference that I can see.
I note both your oldie & Derek's re-purposed plane are configured to cut the corner of the D/T with the trailing edge of the blade. My intuitive approach would've been to make the leading edge cut the corner, so that the shavings are ejected away from the work, but I had seen someone else's effort, & he insisted the blade should cut the corner with the trailing edge. After thinking about it, I decided it made sense because having the leading point cutting into the corner would require a lot of relief to the side of the blade making the point pretty fragile. And my fears that it might impede ejection of shavings turned out to be groundless, they spew out just fine...
Cheers,IW
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16th September 2019, 03:33 PM #8
Nice to see your made and converted Planes getting the job done Ian and Derek.
Reading your link Derek. You changed it back to a dado in the end to match the bought HNT Gordon Dado . No need for dovetails or are you planing another?
I was looking at one of my Moving Filister planes and they are very close to a Dovetail Plane . Im pretty sure a change of angle to the sole is all it needs plus re drill the fence screw holes to match the angle. Its a just a bit of a too nice plane to convert maybe .
The depth stop and nicker are all there ready to go .
I compared my Shouldering Plane to a German Dovetail I have Ian . I reckon not having a fence means its narrower and can get in and lean to what you like . I looks to have more possibilities because of that . A fence can be clamped to the work if you need to which is a bit more of a fiddle . Ive also wondered if the English used these as a bookshelf plane . The dado like saw tooth version you see a lot in Georgian Bookcase sides. One of the nicest way's of shelf adjustment . There is a drawing of a fenced one in that US book ( Pictured at bottom ). There are tones of bookcases with such a shelf holding set up but Ive not seen a plane for it yet . Apart from the drawing and this Shouldering plane possibility. How many 18th C toolboxes exist to be looked into ? Not many.
18 C planes out of their boxes are even pretty rare .
This is the shouldering up against My German dovetail plane . The sole angle of the German is at 70 degrees compared the the 67 of the shouldering . Not many degrees but it looks a lot different .
Both have the trailing edge to the inside
IMG_2240.JPGIMG_2241.JPGIMG_2243.JPGIMG_2244.JPGIMG_2245.JPGIMG_2246.JPGIMG_2247.JPG
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16th September 2019, 04:42 PM #9Reading your link Derek. You changed it back to a dado in the end to match the bought HNT Gordon Dado . No need for dovetails or are you planing another?
The dovetail plane remained a dovetail plane. Here is the sole from a better angle ...
What you have missed - what you likely saw as a dado plane (not the HNT Gordon dado plane) - is this trio of planes ...
One is the HNT Gordon dado plane, another is the dovetail plane. Then there is this one ...
This is also a dovetail plane. The first one (which you refer to as a shouldering plane) planes the male section of a sliding dovetail. The plane above planes the female section of a sliding dovetail
The plane body is angled and the blade and nickers along with this ...
Then the plane runs along a angle guide ...
The article is here: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMad...gDovetail.html
I have come up with a couple of other ways to do these tasks. One is with a Veritas Small Plow Plane ...
... and another is with a Stanley #79 ...
All lots of fun, and functional
Regards from Perth
DerekVisit www.inthewoodshop.com for tutorials on constructing handtools, handtool reviews, and my trials and tribulations with furniture builds.
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