Thread: Saw sets

I don't recognise your saw set, but somewhere on the box should be the range of TPI the saw set is designed for.
the adjustments on the tool itself will have the different settings marked in some way.

as far as I know, saw sets come in regular (for 4 to 12 tpi saws) and fine (for 12 to 26 tpi saws)

I suggest if you're learning to sharpen you should aim for teeth in the 6 to 12 tpi range. Get a lower tpi saw to practice on if the saw you want to sharpen if finer than 12 tpi.

Thanks Ian, I'll have a look at the box tonight.
The saws I got to practise seem to have low tpi, I'm quite sure... I won't touch any good or recent saw until I can sharpen properly.

Gouthar,

Looks like you've a copy of the Eclipse 77 which is a fine saw set. Very easy to use. Many saw sharpeners like to use a set from the Stanley 42 series in particular the 42X. I have a 42X and I prefer my Eclipse 77. On the Dieter Schmidt site are some Somax saw sets. They are essentially the same as the Eclipse 77. The Blue one is for fine saws however. If you are looking for a set to compliment your Hard tool then the blue Somax is probably the one.

Hope this helps.

Cheerio,
Virgil.

PS You have no idea what sort of sites came up when I types in Hard Tools...

Thanks for this detailed answer, Virgil!
As for hard tools, I had to ask here because the results of my Google search was kind of weird.

Gounthar - Virgil and Ian have given good advise. If you check the 'anvil' on your saw set (the rotatable, circular piece that the plunger pushes against) it should have a series of numbers around it. These numbers correspond to the number of tpi of the saw to be set. You'll see that there is a chamfer around the anvil, which gets smaller as the number gets bigger. On older sets, the chamfer is machined pretty accurately, but on later sets (I'm comparing a more recent Eclipse 77 I bought a few years back with the very old one I inhereted from my father's kit), and particularly cheaper copies, the machining may be a bit dodgy. Then the whole thing is somewhat roughly chromed on my 'newer' 77 (it's bare steel on the old one), & the chamfer is not very well-defined at the smaller tooth end.

So saw sets from different manufacturers & different eras of the same manufacturer can vary quite a bit in how much set they apply at the "same" setting. This is not a major hassle, once you get used to your own set - you will find that setting it one side or the other of the supposed number will suit your needs.

The amount of set required on a saw depends a lot on what you do with it. If you cut a lot of not-too-dry wood, or fibrous softwood, you will like more set, and if you only cut very dry, 'firm' woods, you can get away with a much finer set. Just experiment, by starting with a fine set and if it's not enough, it's relatively easy to add more. It's harder to remove excessive set, and risks breaking teeth off. I found the trickiest part of the process when I started out, was to apply even pressure to every tooth on both sides. At first I seemed to always back off a bit on the second side, resulting in more set on one side, and a slight curve to the blade.

As long as it's even, having too much set isn't the end of the world - it means the saw will rattle a bit in the cut and you work harder because you are removing a bit more wood than necessary. However, I find it's better to slightly over-set a saw for people who don't have a lot of hand saw experience, because it makes the saw easier for them to "steer" along the cut line. If you have a bit of excess set, don't worry, it will come off & be just right after the next sharpening or so. I find I only need to reset after about 2 or 3 (light) sharpenings.....

The other aspect to be careful of is tooth rake angle - if it gets too steep (i.e. too close to vertical on the front of the tooth) it will make the saw hard to start, hard to push & give it a very rough, ragged action. I would advise going for the more 'relaxed' end of the recommended rake angles to start with - as you get more used to using saws, you will probably find higher rake angles are ok.

Have fun - it takes a bit of practice to get good at it, but even a poorly hand-sharpened saw usually cuts ok, though a bit rough!

Cheers,

Hi Gouthar,

Ian, IanW, and virgil have already said pretty much all of what you need to know.

The only additional thing I can add is that you will need a saw set with a smaller plunger/anvil than the standard eclipse 77 style. For setting teeth finer than 12ppi.. You have two options.

1. Buy an old eclipse 77 (or somax) and grind the plunger down. (it's easier than it sounds)
2. Buy a "blue" somax from tfww.

Saw Sets at Tools for Working Wood

I generally ignore the numbers on a saw set, as you use it you will find what settings give the result you want. (it's easier to add a little more set, more difficult to remove too much set)

Regards
Ray

One point about the Somax blue. The numbers on the anvil don't relate to the tpi.
Cheers,
Jim

Originally Posted by jimbur

One point about the Somax blue. The numbers on the anvil don't relate to the tpi.
Cheers,
Jim

I will second this, these numbers are just numbers and don't relate to the set a certain pitch need.
That being said, I think it is a good idea to buy from Dieter Schmid, because you live in europe. And as fare as I see, his price in saw files has yet to bee beeten. (I order a few doozen from him every now and than.)

And while odering files from him you can just order a somat set too. Or buy an eclipse 77 on ebay.co.uk. Take the bronce ones, much better than the iron ones.

Cheers
Pedder

Thanks a bunch, guys, everything is clearer now (still have to buy a book on saw sharpening thought).







Here is my first candidate:

You can buy a book but you certainly don't have to. The internet is full of info on the topic.

I'll try to dig some up.

If you buy a book there are a few good ones out there but the one I like best is an Antique by HODGSON.

Scott

Oh, and I meant to comment on sawsets. I have about 15 different kinds. I usually use the Eclipse 77. Of which I have three at present.

I frequently come across them at garage sales, thrift and junk stores, antique stores etc. More often than not the seller doesn't know what the item is and it costs me about two dollars. All of my Eclipses were bought used.

Scott

No need to buy book on saw sharpening:
Welcome to Vintage Saws!

Sharpening Hand Saws | Norse Woodsmith

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orPgaoF31ZQ]YouTube - Saws Part 1: Techniques and Sharpening a Rip Saw[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flJMdpkcn5s]YouTube - Saws Part 2: Sharpening a Cross Cut Saw & Setting Saw Teeth[/ame]

Sharpening a Dovetail Saw - Fine Woodworking Video

A Tool Kit for Sharpening Handsaws - Fine Woodworking Video

And if you're in Sydney Australia on 20FEB2011 you can come along to the next saw sharpening workshop being run by the Traditional Tools Group.
The Traditional Tools Group (Inc.) -- Coming Events

Good luck,
Virg.

Thanks a bunch, guys!
I do love books, especially technical ones. I am always looking for bad reasons to buy some more.
Furthermore, the computer won't go into the shop, and I have a red fish memory. I need to get a reference not far from the saws.
Well, I think my set will be sharpened by 2023.