Thread: Setting up an arsenal of handsaws?

I've figured that I'm after some backsaws, maybe tenon and dovetail, one with finer teeth? I'm not really sure.

Might wish to try your hand at some Japanese saws, a much finer KERF on some of them, the dovetail saw tends to have a much wider KERF than a Japanese saw. You could also try a gentle mens saw, alternate to the dovetail.

Good luck.

Harlan

Will
I don't want to be nosey, but what is your budget?

A really good new western style hand saw (with a traditional style handle) will set you back about AUD$250
a Pax 12" tenon saw (with a machine made handle) is about $180 from Carba-tech
I wont comment on the relative quality of the saws when it comes to cutting, but having examples of both, my preference definitely lies with the traditional style handle


I'm told that learning to sharpen a second hand saw is relatively easy and these guys might even have a workshop or two where you can learn http://www.htpaa.org.au



ian

Weekend markets and secondhand shops will often have old Diston saws amongst others that are quite good. You want one of the earlier models, so avoid anything with aluminium Diston badges, there is a Distonian Website that helps you identify the age of these saws, and $30 to $50 is probably what you would pay for a reasonable saw in good order.

Originally Posted by ian

Will
I don't want to be nosey, but what is your budget?

A really good new western style hand saw (with a traditional style handle) will set you back about AUD$250
a Pax 12" tenon saw (with a machine made handle) is about $180 from Carba-tech
I wont comment on the relative quality of the saws when it comes to cutting, but having examples of both, my preference definitely lies with the traditional style handle

ian

Haha, well that's well and truly out of my budget area! I was hoping for <100, around 50-60 if I can manage. I see plenty of them around this range on ebay or on the tool exchange. I think there was a spear & jackson in a local store for a similar price too...

Originally Posted by johnc

Weekend markets and secondhand shops will often have old Diston saws amongst others that are quite good. You want one of the earlier models, so avoid anything with aluminium Diston badges, there is a Distonian Website that helps you identify the age of these saws, and $30 to $50 is probably what you would pay for a reasonable saw in good order.

Sounds excellent. I love scouring secondhand stuff!

Another question - there seems to be a bit of prestige associated with having a brass back to the saw. Is this in any way functionally important, or just purrrty?

Another question - there seems to be a bit of prestige associated with having a brass back to the saw. Is this in any way functionally important, or just purrrty?

I believe it adds weight and allows the saw to do the work, instead of you forcing it to do so.

Correct me if im wrong please.

Harlan

Originally Posted by wsal

Haha, well that's well and truly out of my budget area! I was hoping for <100, around 50-60 if I can manage. I see plenty of them around this range on ebay or on the tool exchange. I think there was a spear & jackson in a local store for a similar price too...

so you'll be looking for an old Diston with a brass (not steel) back that you will probably have to sharpen so factor in the cost of a saw file and saw anvil

make sure that the saw plate is not bent or kinked

I don't remember all the factors, but in general, in the price and age range you're looking at, a brass back indicates a better quality saw



ian

Hi Will,

There has been a revival of interest in recent years for quality handsaws
there is probably more choice now than there has been for years.

Probably top of my list would be Mike Wenzloff & Sons http://www.wenzloffandsons.com/
They are closed for custom orders but can still be purchased from Lee Valley and Best Things.

Then (in no particular order)
Lie Nielsen http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?cat=507

Adria Tool Works http://www.adriatools.com/

Gramercy ( TFWW) http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/M...egory_Code=CGT
They also sell kits, and have a recently released a new Carcass saw.

Eccentric Tool Works http://www.eccentricwoodcraft.com/page3_toolworks.html

Medallion Tool Works http://www.medalliontools.com/

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Or you can buy on ebay and do the restoration work, look for English saws
like Groves,Sorby,Tyzack, Taylor, Beardshaw etc.. generally excellent saws can be had for $20-$40.
(Disston is good too, I just prefer the early Sheffield makers)

If you are in Melbourne The HTPAA November tool sale is coming up soon.

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Or you can make your own, not as hard as you might think. I have been
planning to do a write up on this... (soon)


Regards
Ray

PS I have a website, with saw related stuff at http://www.backsaw.net you might find some of it of interest.

Ray, what a great website. My Father left me some old distons and I have since accumulated more via ebay. He also left me a German hand saw, around 26 inches, which so far I have been unable to identify. The logo is a star with a cross inside the star and "made in germany" written arond the outside. Any ideas?

Originally Posted by wsal

Another question - there seems to be a bit of prestige associated with having a brass back to the saw. Is this in any way functionally important, or just purrrty?

AFAIK there is no difference between a steel back and a brass back of equal mass on a blade of equal quality, except that the brass looks better. The back has two purposes:
1. To help keep the blade straight as it it pushed (backsaws have thinner blades than panel saws and need the back to prevent compression buckling the blade.
2. To provide mass that turns into a downward force - this helps to keep the blade perpendicular, and means that you can just focus on the back and forth motion and not try to cut into the wood (ie the weight will look after that).

I buy steel-backs for the old Shefffield makers (esp Tyzack) because they look ugly and that is usually a saving of $10 per saw!

I've only bought steel backs, not for any reason other than that is what I could find. They are both good users, no kinks and plenty of meat on the blade. The brass would look nicer, and reflect a period when the hand saw was far more important than today with our easy access to machinery. I would look for the condition of the saw first and not get to worried about the material in the spine.

Thanks very much for all the info guys!
Could we now turn our attention to specifics: Maybe if we could start up a "If I were to buy 2 backsaws to cover as many jobs as possible, they would be:" and specify TPI, size, and tooth profile for each? Then maybe answer the same question for buying 1, or 3 saws...
Cheers
Will

If you look at this post, the attachments are the pages from Charles Hayward's Cabinet-making for Beginners. He suggests a 14" (350mm) tenon saw at 14 ppi (15 tpi) and an 8" (200mm) dovetail saw at 18-22 ppi (19-23 tpi). You won't go far wrong if you start off with those..

As for tooth profile, the tenon should be cross-cut profile (ie raked back about 5-10 degrees and filed with fleam); the dovetail can be shaped more towards a rip, but a crosscut will work as well although more slowly.

Jeremy

I've a recollection of reading somewhere that the "better" saws all had brass backs, steel backs tended to be fitted to a maker's "economy" line of saws.

at the esoteric level, there has been debate on whether folded or slotted backs are better


however, apart from a straight blade, how the saw feels in your hand is probably the most important issue.



ian