Thread: Saw Sharpening Needed

Originally Posted by FenceFurniture

But Lamberger, you know that the only halfway decent Pferd available is the 5" DEST or EST (forget which it is but I think they masquerade it as a DEST - I say masquerade because the "T" part of that is just not true - for ANY saw file in current production)....

Yup, & that's just what I ordered - they are designated "EST" (DEST doesn't seem to be available in 5", least it wasn't mentioned in their cattledog when I was searching). The box of 5" Pferds I bought was tolerable (barely) but these seem to be a notch lower. Just have to add the cost of 1 1/2 files onto the cost of each new saw, I'm afraid...

Cheers,

What if modern files were re-heat treated, without being physically different?

Crikey, I just assumed they musta been 6" that you purchased because of the price. Fourteen bucks for an indian 5" DEST is outrageous!!

That prompted me to have a look at the link Ev posted - they charge either $13 or $14 bucks each for all the files except the 4" Dest ($12). That is, a 5" DESt, a 7" ST, and a 7" RT are all $14. 6" DEST, 6" EST, 6" ST are $13.

Dunno whether they are all Pferds or not.

BUT WAIT - THERE'S MORE! They are all advertised as Vallorbe! (still Indian though) What is going on there? Didn't you say they were Pferds Ian?

This was the packaging on a "Vallorbe" file that I purchased for the testing.



Covered in "Swiss", "American", but not a hint of the truth. It's actually a Grobet USA made in India.

See what we have to put up with Marv?

Originally Posted by pmcgee

What if modern files were re-heat treated, without being physically different?

That's like putting icing on a round loaf of bread and calling it a cake.

Doesn't matter how you dress it up, it'll still be a loaf of bread when you expect cake.

I have accumulated NOS saw files excess to my likely requirements (at my age, how long do I have to live?). I sold quite a few at the TTTG Tool Sale, and given the problems people are having getting files I will sell them on-line as well. Don't think I can do this on the forum, so will figure out some other way. When I figure it out I will post on here.

Cheers
Peter

Originally Posted by pmcgee

What if modern files were re-heat treated, without being physically different?

I think what Brett means is that even if you could heat-treat them, the quality of the blank preparation & toothing just isn't up to snuff. After heat-treating, which is a pretty tricky process unless you have both the gear and the know-how, they are sand-blasted or treated in some way to remove the scale, so you'd need to figure out how to do that, too.

But why should I have to re-make a tool I've bought to do a job, because it's simply not fit for purpose??

Until 20 years ago, most files made in USA/Europe were of decent quality & did the job perfectly well. You didn't approach a box of new files with trepidation or (faint) hope; you knew they would do what you expected. Has everyone simply lost the recipe?

Cheers,

Originally Posted by IanW

Has everyone simply lost the recipe?

Nope, they've just deliberately changed it.

It used to be "Good Tools+ Fair Prices = Satisfied Customers, therefore good profits"

Now it's "Any crap will do, so long as it's cheap, we'll suck them in to buying once and don't care if they come back 'coz everyone is the same. Heh heh, and we own everyone else anyway = Make the fastest buck possible, and to hell with the future."

That is to say, that when it comes to file production, with a very few exceptions, there is no honour any more, and that is really weird in this hand tool renaissance.

Originally Posted by FenceFurniture

......when it comes to file production, with a very few exceptions, there is no honour any more, and that is really weird in this hand tool renaissance.

Seems you are all too right there, Brett, unfortunately.

Surely it won't be long before someone realises there is a boutique market for decent saw files? Even at a (small!) premium, I would buy decent files. If you could get a few more teeth out of them, it would be worth paying a bit extra, but the main value of good files is that they cut evenly and make it so much easier to keep the teeth neat & even!

File Prices
Looking at historic file prices... not only are current files mostly cr@p, they are overpriced!

Take a 6" Slim, pretty common. In 1971 the RRP Wiltshire was $5.50 per dozen... yes dozen, or $0.46 each. Taking the CPI movement to 2014, that file would now cost $4.57, instead of $10.88 (Nicholson)-$13.17 (Bahco*) charged by retailers today (prices per file individually online KLTools from UK including postage). In 1951 the wholesale price (McPhersons) was $0.21, adding sales tax that becomes $0.27, and updating for the CPI $5.13. If markup was 33.3%, the rrp becomes $6.84. In other words prices were falling from 1951-1971, as manufacturing has done for a long time - except now prices have doubled - for rubbish!

Cheers
Peter

* Toolmart charges $13.50 with handle, VEK quoted Pacman $11 by the box - probably sans handle
Note: Jim Davey sells Grobet India 4"-6" DEST for about $8-$9 ea
Where do you think these are made? http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Saw-File-...item2342fd5c91

Peter, there is absolutely no question at all that they were made in India. The black printed logo is always the giveaway.

Originally Posted by Heavansabove

Where do you think these are made? http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Saw-File-...item2342fd5c91

I have asked the seller the following question:
"Can you please clarify how you know that these files are made in Switzerland?

FL Grobet does not have a factory in Switzerland."

Originally Posted by FenceFurniture

I have asked the seller the following question:
"Can you please clarify how you know that these files are made in Switzerland?

FL Grobet does not have a factory in Switzerland."

I am guessing the seller is Mike Jeffries, Woodwork Book & Tool Co.

Originally Posted by Heavansabove

Where do you think these are made? http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Saw-File-...item2342fd5c91

Peter

As FF has pointed out they are probably made in India, but they are also $18 each for 100mm file, $19 each for 130mm and $20 each for 150mm! (Does include postage.)

I think I know now why I have bought NOS from overseas. I was baulking at the cost. Perhaps I should have bought more!

Regards
Paul

You know, we have a lot of very good knife makers here. They have all the gear.

Getting a bit of steel to the right temps, doing the whole anneal, temper, hardening process should be right up their alley. Cleaning with soda too.

Perhaps we can give a band of them some good-but-not-quite-there files and use those to make us up a special batch? Do the process right.....as such.

How many do we need? 100? Should be doable as a group thing? No?