Thread: Saw sharpening files 101

Originally Posted by FenceFurniture

Which makes me deeply suspicious that they aren't Made in USA.

Having never seen one, and reading multiple spellings, and not trusting websites, does it say "Grobert" or "Grobet"?

sorry it was "Grobet"

EDIT: I'm not allowed delete my post but I thought better of voicing an opinion vis a vis the quality of the brands I have used, I'm just not experienced enough.

Just tell me what to buy and where to get it!

My tentative foray into saw collecting hit a snag when I couldn't find saw sharpening files, so this thread has given me a kick in the pants and I contacted the Pferd South Africa to see if they could tell me more about what the sell here and who stocks it in my area. I also asked if they'd be prapared to sell to me directly, and if they had a minimum order quantity etc. They asked for my address and phone number so that they can make an appointment with me, which is probably overkill, because at most I'll buy a box of ten files, which would be plenty to keep me going for quite a while.

There is a Pferd factory in South Africa, but that doesn't mean that their saw files are made here, and as has been mentioned, trust in a old well-known brand is often no longer justified. Of course my skill level probably makes the choice of file almost redundant at this stage.

Lastly, thanks to all who have contributed to this interesting and useful thread.

Hi Guys long time no chit chat, haven't read the whole thread so these may have been mentioned
in there somewhere but I had a few Simonds files that were very good, as far as I know made in the US and were
great quality, don't know how the price is these days. I also picked up a free saw file when I bought a video on
saw sharpening once that was great.

Good one Claw!

Simonds website, showing Saw files, but sans prices. Still no 4" DEST! The Google search brought up some other links, so I'll do a bit more digging.

I'll also investigate what they mean by their "Black" range.

...that Simonds have gone South (in two ways). This is a short thread on Practical Machinist Forum from September 2012.

Two very telling quotes from there:
"We used to sell Simonds. We quit because the products went to hell."
and
"Simonds moved all their production to Honduras about 5 or 6 years ago. They are no longer quality USA files. Keep in mind Craftsman, Ace Hardware and a lot of other private label files are made by Simonds and aren't as good either."

Btw, their "Black" range is just black oxide treatment (which will file off).

Originally Posted by FenceFurniture

...Simonds website, showing Saw files.......

Now you've really confused me, Brett! Look at the cross sections of these files in the link - the only equilateral triangle in the bunch is the 'regular'. Is this real, or accidental distortion transferring the images to the web page? While I can see (limited) for files that looks like these, regular saw-sharpening ain't one of 'em:

file sections.jpg



Cheers,

Originally Posted by IanW

Now you've really confused me, Brett! Look at the cross sections of these files in the link - the only equilateral triangle in the bunch is the 'regular'. Is this real, or accidental distortion transferring the images to the web page? While I can see (limited) for files that looks like these, regular saw-sharpening ain't one of 'em:

file sections.jpg



Cheers,

Yeah, I wasn't going to mention that

It's probably a sign of their manufacturing standards these days....

Originally Posted by IanW

Now you've really confused me, Brett!

file sections.jpg

They say for 60* angled teeth ... (a bad description to start with) ... I think it is just the graphic art division of the marketing department getting in and 'value-adding' to increase 'conceptual uptake factor'.

I mean ... they do look slimmer and slimmer ...

Cheers,
Paul

Those cross sections are not correct, all those 3 square profiles should be equilateral triangles, the double extra slim profile shown could almost be used as for cant filed saw teeth...

The whole reason for equilateral triangle shaped files is that the teeth are all 60 degree gullets, unless we are talking something other than normal filing...

Here is a file identification chart, that might help add considerably to the confusion.... download the pdf for better resolution...

Good stuff Ray - thank you for that.

It does seem more and more likely that the definition of 3 Square means "Equilateral Triangle, edges not cut" even though I'm yet to read those exact words - I keep reading "sharp edges" which I interpret as "not cut", and at the same time keep seeing that they differentiate between 3 Sq and Saw Files by saying that Saw Files have cut edges.

Time to move on to the next chapter.

I hadn't thought about it before, but it's mentioned in Ray's poster.

Surely for machine sharpening they use the same length file for all profiles?
Which would suggest there exists 8" or 10" DEST ???

Paul

Originally Posted by pmcgee

Which would suggest there exists 8" or 10" DEST ???

Never seen them mentioned anywhere, and there's probably not much point to them as the face widths can be acquired in shorter length EST or ST (which will govern the corner radius).

Originally Posted by pmcgee

...Surely for machine sharpening they use the same length file for all profiles?
Which would suggest there exists 8" or 10" DEST ???

Paul, I don't know if 9" DEST files exist, but I do know they would NOT be suitable for filing fine teeth! As I have pointed out above, it's not the width of the faces that is an issue, it's the radii of the corners - these diminish with increasing slimness in any given length, along with tooth pitch getting finer, but it's relative! a 9" DEST would have a shorter radius corner than a 9" regular, but much larger radius than a 4", you can be assured.

Part of the problem can be blamed on a lack of punctuation & grammar; The 'slim', 'extra slim', etc., refer to the face widths, while 'taper' indicates it's a tapered file as opposed to a straight one. If only they wrote "double extra slim, tapered", it would be perfectly clear to all!

It seems from the last dozen posts that file makers have made obfuscation an art-form!

Cheers,