Thread: Saw sharpening files 101

Originally Posted by IanW

Paul, I don't know if 9" DEST files exist, but I do know they would NOT be suitable for filing fine teeth! As I have pointed out above, it's not the width of the faces that is an issue, it's the radii of the corners - these diminish with increasing slimness in any given length, along with tooth pitch getting finer, but it's relative! a 9" DEST would have a shorter radius corner than a 9" regular, but much larger radius than a 4", you can be assured.

Part of the problem can be blamed on a lack of punctuation & grammar; The 'slim', 'extra slim', etc., refer to the face widths, while 'taper' indicates it's a tapered file as opposed to a straight one. If only they wrote "double extra slim, tapered", it would be perfectly clear to all!

It seems from the last dozen posts that file makers have made obfuscation an art-form!

Cheers,

And of course there's bandsaw taper, which has rounded corners with teeth all the way round... I've got a box of em somewhere.. I think the idea is to avoid stress raising sharp corners in the gullet...

Regards
Ray

Uh oh - from the Grobet USA 'dog:

GROBET USA®

maintains state-of-the-art
production facilities in the US and Switzerland, as
well as a global network of suppliers

Originally Posted by IanW

Paul, I don't know if 9" DEST files exist, but I do know they would NOT be suitable for filing fine teeth!

I was assuming that they would need all their files to be the same length (being a machine), so was picturing a file exactly like a 4" DEST ... but 8" or 10" long. Same density of teeth, same corners, everything - just longer. Not "scaled-up" like a normal 10" file.

Maybe the answer is as simple as the filing machines can take 4" files - which would make my query redundant.

I'm not all that into 'simple' but.

Cheers,
Paul

Ugh. Didn't read carefully enough. There is 1 type of file 6" long ... from that poster.

machine sawfile.JPG

Grobet are good, Vallorbe just as good ( I seem to remember they might even be sister brands ) Ok ok I get it...so, Grobet is one of Vallorbe's brands...

Catalog pdf linked below is from AJS Swiss pattern needle files are especially handy for saws with more that 15 tpi..

Regards
Ray

Originally Posted by FenceFurniture

It does seem more and more likely that the definition of 3 Square means "Equilateral Triangle, edges not cut" even though I'm yet to read those exact words - I keep reading "sharp edges" which I interpret as "not cut", and at the same time keep seeing that they differentiate between 3 Sq and Saw Files by saying that Saw Files have cut edges.

And then there is Pferd South Africa's online catalog which refers to "Three Square Saw Files". I'm officially out of my depth here. The article descriptions are SAEGEFLEN for the saw files and DREIKANTFEILEN for their standard three square files, so it seems the Germans know the difference.

I have been quoted on the following

SAW FILE SLIM 1237 125 C2
SAW FILE SLIM 1237 150 C2
SAW FILE SLIM 1237 175 C2
SAW FILE SLIM 1237 200 C2
SAW FILE EXSL.1238 125 C2
SAW FILE EXSL.1238 150 C2

At prices around $4 - $5 each, which seems pretty cheap, so I suppose I'll start by buying one of each and then see how I go. I hope that they're not three-square in the sense described above.

The good news is that one of their regular delivery routes goes past here which means that they'll deliver to me out in the sticks. They're also happy to sell directly to the end-user which is a pleasant surprise.

At this point I have no clue where these files are made, and therefore what their quality is. I'll probably be none the wiser after receiving them either

I think that some are probably still confused about Vallorbe and Vallorbe (dunno why).

This is my read of it so far (and I'll stand corrected):

• Vallorbe is a region in Switerland, famous for it's high quality metalwork, including file/rasp makers.
• "Grobet" is one of the manufacturers, started in 1812 (?) and responsible for the creation of the Swiss Pattern Files designs.
• "Vallorbe" is another manufacturer, taking their name from the region.

Derek was saying that Grobet have bought Vallorbe out. Certainly the names are often linked, as they are on the Vallorbe website (in one page anyway).

There is also Grobet USA, and I have a feeling that this may be a completely separate company, perhaps using the name under licence (or something). It is this company that has manufacturing supplied from all over the world (in the same way that Pferd does). Or perhaps there is a link between this company and the Swiss Grobet. Dunno.

I have sent an email to Lee Valley to check if the Grobet Saw Files they carry are actually made in Switzerland (on the website it says Grobet of Switzerland). Lie Nielsen also carry Grobet SFs, and their website states categorically "Made In Switerland". It would be a bit odd if LV and LN are getting their Grobets from 2 different suppliers, so that leads me to thinking that they are both Swiss made grobets.

The range of Grobets at LN and LV are identical. LV are cheaper on the range except for the 4" and 5" DESTs.

Tools For Working Wood (TFWW) also carry Grobets. Their range only overlaps 50% with the two above, and they have another four files that the others don't carry. Their prices are the best in all but one case (4" DEST). They have nothing in stock.

Wait for it.....each of these three stockists has different ideas on which files are for which tpi saws. Now there's a surprise eh?

On the other hand, as I stated before, Henry Eckert (the Oz reps of LN) say the files are Vallorbe brand, except they are the identical range to LN USA, and the same codes (don't know if "W/- handle" means with or without handle - suspect with, at least judging by the prices)

Originally Posted by Colin62

And then there is Pferd South Africa's online catalog which refers to "Three Square Saw Files". I'm officially out of my depth here. The article descriptions are SAEGEFLEN for the saw files and DREIKANTFEILEN for their standard three square files, so it seems the Germans know the difference.

I have been quoted on the following

SAW FILE SLIM 1237 125 C2
SAW FILE SLIM 1237 150 C2
SAW FILE SLIM 1237 175 C2
SAW FILE SLIM 1237 200 C2
SAW FILE EXSL.1238 125 C2
SAW FILE EXSL.1238 150 C2

At prices around $4 - $5 each, which seems pretty cheap, so I suppose I'll start by buying one of each and then see how I go. I hope that they're not three-square in the sense described above.

The good news is that one of their regular delivery routes goes past here which means that they'll deliver to me out in the sticks. They're also happy to sell directly to the end-user which is a pleasant surprise.

At this point I have no clue where these files are made, and therefore what their quality is. I'll probably be none the wiser after receiving them either

GOOD LUCK! Hey let us know the outcome Colin, with pics please!

That's 100 readers (+guests) of this thread now (check at the bottom).

Noel, did you see that? Hot topic apparently.

Ok

Thanks for this

I'm now going back to the beginning for a re read as I'm totally confused

Originally Posted by FenceFurniture

That's 100 readers (+guests) of this thread now (check at the bottom).

Noel, did you see that? Hot topic apparently.

Brett

I think Noel will be most impressed with the number of views, but possibly not with your maths. As I checked just now it was up to 1180 so perhaps it should have read "1000 readers (+ guests)" .

I suspect that a renewed interest in quality handsaws that are re-sharpenable will have a flow on to the file manufacturers. I was particularly impressed with with Ian Wilkie's tests and the effect on the gullets. Liogier came out particularly well with all the others failing dismally.

As someone who is taking a renewed interest in traditional handsaws I have come to realise the importance of the humble file.

I also feel pleased, in a way possibly I have no right to, that a manufacturer is visiting these Forums and heeding the views exhibited. Excellent or should I say "Ca va bien."

Regards
Paul

Originally Posted by Bushmiller

I think Noel will be most impressed with the number of views, but possibly not with your maths. As I checked just now it was up to 1180 so perhaps it should have read "1000 readers (+ guests)" .

Pssst.

Scroll right down to the bottom of this page.....

Originally Posted by FenceFurniture

Pssst.

Scroll right down to the bottom of this page.....

. Nothing. No figures.... nothing. (Computers never work for me.)

But on the Hand Tools Unpowered.... Total views is now 1225 .

Regards
Paul

Confirmed just now - Lee Valley's Grobet Files are manufactured in Switzerland (I imagine that LN's must be the same). Will be very interested to see how the Bahco's go in local testing.

I was going to post a flippant "1259 views," but I'm not going to do that now. Discussions with Brett have revealed he is privy to information I am apparently not. It doesn't appear on my web page. But I'm not offended .

He is talking about the number of different registered forum members who have visited this thread. It is indeed an impressive 103 at last count (plus the unregistered visitors). So I unreservedly withdraw my scurrilous comments regarding Brett's ability to count, read or interpret statistics .

Furthermore I hope it will not influence adversely how long it will take to receive any of the items I have agreed to purchase through his Group Buys . (Currently there are at least three instances I am still anguishing over how I will tell SWMBO )

A Noel Liogier, "Tres interesante, n'est pas?"

Regards
Paul