Thread: Saw Sharpening Setup

With the vice and saw so low down close to the top of the vice I find it had to see how you can get a file in there to make contact with the teeth?

With longer saws I prefer to sharpen sanding up.
When sitting down I found I was rotating my body as I sharpened further along the line of teeth. I tried to correct this by changing my arm angle but as the angle gets greater and greater it was difficult to keep filing at the same angle.
When standing I found I could keep the same angles and shuffle along every dozen or so teeth. Shuffling a seat along is a bit more of a PITA.

Good idea about the maggy lamp lampo especially for smaller teeth.


Sawvice1.jpg

Bob, when you're young & flexible, you can bend down & contort your body in al sorts of ways we older more experienced folks find uncomfortable & unsustainable - and what's worse, I can't see clearly from half the distance I once could, specs are great but they don't give you back 100% of what you once had.

So I too have to set the saw at just the right height for comfort & clear vision, & I have to stand to it so I can slowly shuffle along & maintain the same position relative to each tooth being filed. I tried a "magy lamp' way back; one got thrown out at work because some minor part had broken, so I retrieved it, fixed the broken bit & used it for a while, but found it a bit awkward. It's ok for a very short length, but you have to move it along many times for a full-size saw. My choice of vision-improver is a head-band type magnifier. I started with a cheapie ($15 at the time from McJings) & later an "Optivisor" which has slightly better quality lenses. These days I put the optivisor on the minute I walk into the shed & it stays there all day, ready to be pulled down whenever I have to resolve anything like the mm marks on a rule.

Despite the "aids", the maximum tpi I can handle is slowly decreasing, I can manage 24tpi at a pinch, but 18 is about my comfort limit now, & even that can be challenging on a bad day...

Cheers,

That's a good observation, BobL. Had to get down to the garage and recreate the set-up to answer your question.

Yes, the saw was positioned very close to the top of the vise but enough to clear the gulleys above the jaw line. With regard to the vise being so low, it's more of a necessity due to the existing design of the saw vise. One foot higher would be ideal, but that requires modifications to the saw vise (which may still happen sometime in the future). But as Ian has alluded to, being sub-40, I probably have the luxury of having a more forgiving back (for now).

The low position of the vise coincidently helps keeping the file level while making the cut. I have small hands, so by resting the left hand on the bench I can maintain contact for level reference as the file cuts across the tooth. Refer to photographs below, note that had my right hand was holding the camera to take these pictures. And yes, the downside is that the said right hand occasionally bumps into the bench vise while sharpening...
IMG_20210919_203833972.jpg IMG_20210919_203857083.jpg

Being new to this, I'm sure the sharpening setup will evolve over time but at least this works ok for me at the moment.

Originally Posted by BobL

Good idea about the maggy lamp lampo especially for smaller teeth.

Ah.. maggy lamp, so that's what it is called.

Disston 3D saw filing vise...




Veritas saw file holder ...




Stanley #42X saw set ....



Eclipse #77 saw set (with the red paint) ...




Magnifying visor with light ...




Veritas file holder for jointing (Use with a 6" or 8" mill file) ...




And, of course, files for filing the teeth of saws. That is another topic altogether.

Regards from Perth

Derek

I've had three vises and have gone back to using just two sprung boards in a metal vise (except for the smallest of saws where the tooth line is short and the vise is needed)

Somewhere around five years ago, I stopped looking so close and sped up sharpening and instead focus on making each stroke the same in a rhythm that I don't stop and won't skip or double teeth.

Originally Posted by D.W.

......Somewhere around five years ago, I stopped looking so close and sped up sharpening and instead focus on making each stroke the same in a rhythm that I don't stop and won't skip or double teeth.....

Yep, that's a natural progression. As with any repetitive task, you develop a rhythm & muscle-learning that brings constancy, and particularly with handsaws where you're dealing with good-sized teeth, one does a lot of it by "feel". With a good rhythm going, you can tell if a gullet is out of kilter as you place the file in it. But I don't sharpen enough saws regularly to be able to do it by feel alone, particularly with tiny teeth, so it's always Optivisor time for me when saws need sharpening.

Andy, for rip teeth, and when filing fleamed teeth horizontally (i.e. with no "slope") I put the saw very low in the vise jaws as you show yours. It reduces chatter & screeching and makes the job far more comfy. If you want to file a 'slope' to the gullets, you need to have the jaws chamfered and/or set the saw a bit higher above the jaws do you can angle the file down without hitting the vise jaws. When filing teeth with slope, the file has less tendency to catch (it's like lowering the saw as you start a cut), so having the saw a bit further out of the vise doesn't cause so much chatter. This is probably the main advantage of sloped gullets, the slight extra gullet volume is of little or no practical consequence in most sawing situations, imo.

For donkey's years I wanted an old Disston (or any) saw vise. But I took part in a saw-making workshop about 10 years or so ago, and many of the participants rocked up with old & new (Gramercy) metal vises. The screeching that filled the room when it came to the tooth-filing part made me quite content to stick with my rustic wooden-jawed thing, it does its job without protest.
saw vise 2ed.jpg

It's only vice (if vises can have vices ) is the ends are a bit bulky and don't fit around the handles enough on very small saws to clamp the whole blade, so I either take the handle off (much simpler with the 'modern' sleeve nuts as opposed to split nuts), or clamp a couple of short bits of wood on the end as a dampener. I should modify it further (I had one go at it but didn't remove enough material), but fear of making it too flexible has me hesitant to chop more away. I should just make another smaller model to deal with very small saws but I've misplaced that particular round tuit somewhere....

Cheers

I agree about the quietness of timber (or in my case plywood) jaws. In my early reading on the subject much was written about the height of the teeth above tbe jaws. "The lower the better" because it reduced the screech. I don't notice any difference and with a good file can comfortably sharpen without PPE.

My saw vise is lined in leather. Very quiet.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Originally Posted by Mountain Ash

..... and with a good file can comfortably sharpen without PPE....

Actually, I don't think the "lower is better" advice is only for noise abatement, MA, I think it's more about keeping the plate from deflecting as you file. Even if it's barely noticeable, slight deflection makes it harder to file consistently. If you have any thin-plate saws (~15 thou plate, for e.g.), I think you'll find they are pretty sensitive to having more than a few mm above the jaws...
Cheers,

Edit - Derek replied while I was typing, and yes, lining the jaws of a metal vise is a smart move imo, I meant to mention it myself. I would probably grab a metal saw vise if one fell off a truck or summat, but wooden vises (of which there are several types) can work just fine and are something a beginner can cobble up for themselves very easily. Once you get the hang of saw filing & decide you want to continue, a metal vise may make the job a little bit more convenient, but I doubt you'll do a better job with it than with your wooden vise, provided it's holding the job firmly...

Cheers,