Thread: Shooting for a plane

Originally Posted by Cklett

...and now I am getting a headache...

Derek responded same time I was writing mine....

Ck, ordinarily at this stage, Ian and yourself should be heading over to my place where we would continue this discussion over a few beers. I am sure we would be able to forget the original question after a while

Regards from Perth

Derek

Originally Posted by derekcohen

Ck, ordinarily at this stage, Ian and yourself should be heading over to my place where we would continue this discussion over a few beers. I am sure we would be able to forget the original question after a while

Regards from Perth

Derek

May I join that discussion once the world returns to some sort of normality,

But I am finding this whole discussion, excellent,and note I am at present sober.

Cheers Matt.

Also on a note of a blade slicing, does it not have to have a central pivot point to pivot slice?


Cheers Matt.

Ck, maybe we are using the word "slice" in a different sense? To me, "slice" implies that the blade is moving in two separate directions at once. On a ramped shooting board, the blade moves forward and down as you push the plane forward; any given point on the cutting edge is moving in two directions at once relative to the workpiece.

It doesn't matter if you chock the plane so the blade is perpendicular, use the plane as-is, or use a plane with a skewed blade, you will get a slicing action on a ramped board.

But none of he above will give you a slicing action if the plane runs parallel with the workpiece, it doesn't matter if the blade is perpendicular or skewed, any given point on the cutting edge moves in one direction only, relative to the work.

I'm being bold here, but I would suggest that a skewed blade would not give you any reduction in effort. In fact, if you could measure the force required to move the plane very accurately, it should increase slightly as the blade becomes fully engaged with the work, compared with a perpendicular blade cutting the same thickness shaving (good luck setting up two separate planes to cut exactly the same thickness shaving!).

The slicing action of a ramped board possibly does decrease effort. The gain would be small, and perhaps not detectable to the operator taking very fine shavings, but maybe over he course of a very busy day at the shooting board, you might feel a little less fatigued?

Straight blades, skewed blades, parallel boards, ramped boards - they all work & can all work very well. I use a manky shooting board I'd be ashamed to show you all, for the rare occasions I shoot anything nowadays. But because I use it so little, & because we were taught that the operator can control the accuracy of the cut just as well as the board, I usually get the result I want without too much bother. I often think about making a decent ramped board, if for no other reason than I wouldn't need to hide it from shed visitors, it's just that I haven't got into a situation where I really need a decent board, yet.

But I fully understand your wanting to put a lot of thought & effort into your proposed shooter - this is the essence of amateurism & why we spend time in sheds! Being "Berufsdiletanten" is what it's all about as far as I'm concerned....

Cheers,

Originally Posted by derekcohen

Ck, ordinarily at this stage, Ian and yourself should be heading over to my place where we would continue this discussion over a few beers. I am sure we would be able to forget the original question after a while
...

An excellent suggestion, Derek! But distance & pesky viruses preclude that, so I took the second-best option of pouring myself a nice glass while I type. It's a coldish evening here, so I chose a nice aged rye rather than beer.....

Ciao,

Wow, it is more than a year ago, that I was working on the shooting plane and the above discussion. You can clearly see that the meeting and discussion over beer or other spiritual beverages did not take place and no one managed to talk me out of this. I do tend to have the habit of sticking to silly ideas.

The plane was started before the plane challenge, therefore I couldn't enter this one and had to do another one first. That put this one on the back burner. But now I had time and mood to tackle this again.

Remember the prototype I favored? Well here is it again with the resulting product:

20211004_122543.jpg

Maybe, let's get the technical data out of the way first:
- It's 400mm long and weighs about 3.5kg
- Blade is a 2" Luban low angle plane blade bedded at about 12 to 13 degrees with a 20 degrees scew.
- The adjuster is a Veritas slow motion adjuster and had to be modified to fit to the blade. Thanks to Ian W.
- The timber is Chinese Elm and the main body a 75mm x 75mm x 5mm thick steel angle profile
- In order to file the bed I had to make a huge opening into the body, which I then filled with an adjustable brass mouth piece

Now to some detailes of the process and thoughts I had.

As said I had to make a huge opening to be able to file the 12 degrees bed into the body with normal files.

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I fitted a piece of scrap wood with the right angle bed as a file guide as well.

Then I needed a way to install the screw to hold the lever cap. For that I peened a piece of steel in place with a threaded hole. This way I did not have to drill into the body itself for the thread. And then completed the bed with another piece of timber, where it was easier to have the cut out for the adjuster.

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To line everything up I used another piece of scrap as guide.

It took me a while to sort out the infill and to decide exactly where to put the "shark fin". I then decided to also add another hump so I have several places where I could place my hand.

The board I had and wanted to use was not thick enough to cut the entire infill out with the rebate on the back to reach over the steel. I decided to glue a thinner board onto the back which would then form a rebate. I did not make it as thick as the steel body and rather have the sole (the part where the blade sticks out) about 2mm proud of the infill. This way when lapping the sole I am not sanding down the infill and rub all the metal dirt into it. I can just cover the timber with masking tape and keep it clean.

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Then to the mouth. The mouth piece is made of two parts peened together. So I have a nice block for a threaded hole for the adjuster screw.

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Just added a little brass plate on the other side and made two thumb screws for the lever cap and the mouth adjuster screw just with some bolts and timber.
And as my former shooting board was not able to receive a rail for a track I also had to make a new board from stuff I had flying around. In the background is my old set-up.

20211004_120740.jpg

Now off course you want to know if it works. Yes it does.


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There is still a bit of chatter in the blade. I think the bed still need some refinement. But in general it is already usable and much more comfortable for my purposes.
The mouth is still a bit to wide. I will see that I can file the slot for the screw more open to get more move or worst case have to make a new mouth piece with more width.

I think it turned out quite well. Although if I wouldn't have started before the plane challenge I think after that I would have tried to make the body with a dovetailed construction. I think it is easier to form the bed then.

Any ideas for a nick name?

In any case my specialty plane familiy is growing.


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Nice work, I like that a lot. The family is growing.

CK,
That is very clever on a lot fronts, love the use of the angle iron,an the details.
Love how you over come, opening the mouth up to accommodate the low angle iron, an being able to file the mouth, not easy even on a high angle bed plane.
It’s just such a great concept, an like Picko said the family is getting bigger.

Cheers Matt.

Yep, I agree with Matt - I really admire the way you come up with solutions to problems, Ck. I think being fairly new to the game, your mind is free to think from first principles & not get bogged-down trying to do things by what are considered more traditional methods. A plane vaguely similar to this one has been at the back of my mind for years, but once again you have put me to shame & delivered a working prototype before I have even taken a file to metal...

Well-done again!

Hi CK, you never cease to amaze me with your ingenuity and approach to problem solving.
That's an impressive line up of specialty plane.
Glad that you posted an update on the final product as I somehow missed the original post from last year. Thanks for sharing.

Andy

Hi CK. So that's what you have been up to. And the photo of your bench with a green taped up thing on it makes a lot more sense now! Great work and that chinese elm continues to come in real handy. Funny side note, as I went back to the start of your thread, I was reading along thinking how did I miss this - only to read comments made by myself. Lockdown must really be messing with me.

Originally Posted by Mountain Ash

....... I was reading along thinking how did I miss this - only to read comments made by myself. Lockdown must really be messing with me.

Nope, it's just an age thing, MA - it'll probably get worse. But look on the bright side, it means there's even more new stuff to learn each day......

Originally Posted by Cklett

Any ideas for a nick name?

In any case my specialty plane familiy is growing.


20211004_122241.jpg

CK

How about "Straight Shooter?" (There must be a few personalities with that moniker. Perhaps somebody could expand a little. "Dirty Harry" maybe?)

Things I liked included, but are not limited to, the ability to think outside the square, the use of that Chinese Elm, the precision execution and the photographic story.

A very worthy addition to the family of misfits.

Regards
Paul

Ps: It may be lucky, for us, you excluded, most honestly I may add, this plane from the "Challenge."

Nice plane CK, makes mine look like a brontosaurus.

Referring to the handle as a shark fin made me think of "Greg Norman" for a nickname but I reckon for the shark theme simply "Jaws" is better.