Thread: Which shoulder plane?

This photo shows the same piece after a pass across both faces with the shoulder plane. Clean as a whistle! This was the last of the test pieces.

In summary: the plane is easy to use, even for a rank amateur like me. Cutting end grain shoulders in jarrah was interesting work. The plane cuts beautifully but, because it is set at a high bed angle, you have to use a bit of controlled effort. The key word here is controlled. The plane’s simple design makes it equally simple to find a comfortable grip. For me, this entailed placing the back of the plane in the palm of my right hand, forefinger along the top, thumb on the left side and the other three fingers curled against the right side. I use my left hand to guide the front of the plane against the shoulder of the cut.

I learnt early in the exercise, as Photo 2 demonstrates, that cutting cross-grain means even more control is required. Tear-out is easy to achieve and not just at the end of the cut. Too much force allows the blade to jerk and the resultant savagery will make a mess of the fibres. Photo 4 demonstrates that a sustained but controlled pressure, keeping the plane tight into the shoulder of the cut, will eliminate the problem.

I said in an earlier post that I didn’t anticipate being disappointed with the choice of Terry Gordon’s shoulder plane. Having now given it a thorough workout, I’m delighted to tell you that I’m not a bit disappointed. It’s an excellent tool that does its job very well.

Your correspondent is now open for your comments, questions and criticisms.

Regards

Col

Col

Let me be the first to say what a stirling job you've done, particularly on such a hot day. Bloody Hell, no wind to go windsurfing and I've dripped puddles all over the workshop.

But I digress. What I am unsure about is whether you cut both shoulder and cheek, or just cheek. I can see that you obtained a clean cut across the grain on the cheek. Frankly, this is not much of a test of a shoulder plane (infact is not even the real task of a shoulder plane. For example, it can be done with a chisel or a Stanley #140, a skew rabbit block plane).

Did you cut the shoulder, that is, cut the end grain? THAT would test the metal of this plane since it is more easily accomplished with a blade with a low angle bed.

Best regards

Derek

p.s. still waiting for a beer.

Derek

Sorry - I thought I'd made that clear. I cut both the cheek and the shoulder on every test piece.

I reality, of course, the shoulder of a tenon may not need to be planed, even if cut by hand (with a fine kerf saw). However, I'm assuming that I will use this plane to creep up to an exact dimension on tenon shoulders when I'm making fine adjustments.

Anyway, yes - I did use it to cut end grain on the shoulders. Having looked again at the photos, I can see why you questioned me. It's not too obvious because of the angle of the first two shots. In fact, the excess material showing at the intersection point in the first photo was removed by a pass across the end grain of the shoulder. I only cut across the cheek as an afterthought (and made a mess of it, as you can see!).

Mate - that beer is becoming more urgent with the rising temperature! I'll give you a call this week.

Regards

Col

As a fully paid-up member of the Norm faction of the woodworking community, I am not sure if I should be commenting in this thread, since, as I said in my previous post, I would contend that a shoulder plane is an unnecessary tool. However, I think that, if you are going to get a shoulder plane, the way to go is to get a low-angled one with a blade adjustment system, like the Veritas medium shoulder plane. Unfortunately, Lee Valley have just raised the price by US$40 to US$179, but, before that, it seemed pretty good value. I still maintain, though, that the best way of trimming a tenon's cheeks is with a chisel, and that a tenon's shoulders should not need trimming at all, unless you insist on cutting them with a hand saw.

I know that some people get pleasure from spending time tapping the back of their plane with a hammer, and acquiring the skill to know just how hard to tap it to set the blade, but I am afraid I am not one of them. Nevertheless, it is good to see that the Gordon planes have achieved world-wide renown amongst plane aficionados.

Rocker

Your opinion, like your obvious ability, commands respect.

As Cyrano de Bergerac might have said: there's more than one way to skin a cat!

Regards

Col

Rocker wrote:

I would contend that a shoulder plane is an unnecessary tool.

Rocker, I simply cannot agree with you. In the Real World, woodworkers fine tune their work to fit or just to correct an error. I do this all the time (if I am an expert at anything, it is in repairing my mistakes). I contend that if we aim to hit Perfection on the first attempt, and accept nothing less, then not many of us would even bother to try. Again, I am the foremost example of this law.

Jigs are designed to reduce error by guiding the cut, and I'm sure that your tenon jig is top notch, but I cannot imagine that you get an exact fit every time (having said that, I'm sure you can, but the effort and manner involved is not for the likes of me. To use a micrometer to gauge exactness is not my cup of tea, although I recognise that some enjoy this form of woodworking). So in the Real World we need Tools to aid in the cutting of tenons. The shoulders are the most important part of the tenon since this is what shows - look at Frank Krausz' video and listen to his discussion on this point. Chisels do not cut it freehand when adjusting tenon shoulders (pun intended). They are fine for tenon cheeks, however.

There is another factor. Using a plane, such as the HNT Gordon, brings me out in goosebumps. Gad, I'd create a minor error, if this was what it takes, JUST for the opportunity to use one. Your suggestion of the Veritas medium shoulder plane is a good one. This plane has a superior reputation on USA websites. It has the ability to be adjusted in every possible way. Like a micrometer. But I would not buy one - because it looks like Sci-Fi nightmare. I would not trade user-friendliness for traditionalism in this situation. The HNT Gordon planes are Art. That's why Col chose his: "form following function to good effect". I am going to buy one, and I'm sure that I will wet myself every time I use it!

Regards from Perth

Derek

Derek,

Fortunately the woodworking community is a broad church, whose members derive their pleasure from different aspects of the craft. I get my kicks from achieving accuracy in an enviroment where many factors make that goal difficult to reach. However, there are limits - I doubt if I would get much satisfaction from working with a computer-controlled routing machine. I think you get your kicks from mastering tools that require a fair amount of expertise to use, whereas I just get frustrated trying to get any worthwhile results from using a tool like a spokeshave or a draw-knife; I would rather use a compass-plane or a router, and save myself the humiliation of repeated failure.

I think I belong to the school of thought which does not hold with the saying that it is better to travel than to arrive. Thus, my main satisfaction in woodworking is with the finished product, rather than in the actual process of making the product. So I prefer to go for the most efficient tools, rather than the most challenging ones.

Having said all this, I must admit, that, if money were no object, I would be happy to buy a Veritas shoulder plane, which seems to me the most efficient tool for the job, but it just doesn't feature very high on my list. You, on the other hand, are happy to spurn the efficient tool in favour of the aesthetically pleasing one which can produce good results if you have the persistence to master it. That is a fair enough point of view, and Gordon planes have found a lucrative niche market among woodworkers who subscribe to it.

You blokes are going to just have to agree to disagree. This argument will come up time and time again and there is no resolution.

Isn't woodworking such a fantastic recreation? There can't be too many occupations around that have such a broad range of entry points and that cater for so many differing points of view and personal philosophies.

I built an electric guitar once, much of it lovingly crafted by hand using spokeshaves, hand scrapers and chisels. It took weeks. A mate saw what I was doing and raced off and built his own. His was done with power tools in a weekend. It was very clean compared to mine, which had lumps and bumps and mistakes all over it. An old bloke that I had met along the way had shown me how to fix mistakes, and how to use a cabinet scraper to shape the finger board. But despite that, although I was envious of my mate's skill, I liked mine better because it 'looked' hand made. More importantly I had enjoyed the process of making it. I don't even know where it is any more.

I'm somewhere in the middle at the moment. I'm envious of those who can do such accurate work that a micrometer has any use: I'm happy to be within a millimetre or two. At the same time, I wish I could get better results with my hand saws, planes and chisels. At the moment, machinery is the best chance that I've got of getting good results - but one day...

Rocker

My only disagreement with the things you say is that you tend to push your point of view and negate any other. We actually agree more than we disagree - the fact that I do not subscribe to the extent that you subscribe to them does not mean that I can't identify with your perspective (if all that makes sense!). I do use, and have frequently offered advice in, powered tools and powered tool jigs (for example, that long, long thread on router tables at short while ago). I try not to advocate a singular strategy (e.g. power vs hand) for someone as if it were the only way. While everyone knows my affiliation for hand tools, I do not attempt to persuade all that this is the only way to fly (because I use as many powered tools as anyone else). Of course, when somreone raises a question about handtools, well then my enthusiasm certainly comes to the fore!

I welcome your advice and insights about jigs because I think that you have something worthwhile to offer here. I also think that you know a little more about hand tools than you let on.

I guess that I am writing this because I do not want you or anyone on this forum to think that we have some kind of feud. There is certainly nothing like this from my side.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Derek,
I am sorry if I have sounded excessively combative in this discussion. Certainly, I have no intention of feuding. I respect your knowledge and expertise in the use of hand tools; I suppose I am sometimes tempted to play the role of devil's advocate too vigorously. I agree with Driver that there are many ways to skin a cat, and, as Darren suggests, I am happy to agree to disagree. There is a fine line between putting one's point of view cogently, and seeming to disrespect the opposing point of view. Perhaps I have inadvertently overstepped it.

Rocker

Rocker and Derek

Let's not get too sensitive here, fellas! This is Australia where a robustly-expressed viewpoint is, and should be, a matter of pride. The type of discussion that this thread contains is nothing but a good thing.

Speaking personally, I've learnt a helluva lot from both of you. If you were to worry too much about treading on each other's feelings, you might not be so articulate and the quality of your advice would be adversely affected.

Keep it up!

Regards

Col

This is all so sweet and touchy - feely, I might cry, its just special.

Geez lads - get in there with your boots and sort it out, let me know the best method when your finished.

What is this bloody Martha Stewart does joinery?



... I'll get me coat.

Dave

Any more from you and I'll send my mate, Rocker, over to sort you out.

Regards from Perth

Derek