Thread: shoulder plane vs low angled plane

A shoulder plane can clean up end grain I do so with my HNT shoulder plane, it is however a question of width. A Shoulder plane blade is limited to 1.25" width in the blade.

A low angle shoulder plane like this one by Veritas is bevel up just like a block plane. For all intended purposes it should behave similarly.

A shoulder plane can do many of the things a block plane cannot do. If you are cutting tenons, shoulders, trenches, and dados then a shoulder plane is indispensable without question. Because a block plane cannot get into corners.

However their is a crossover tool is a skew Block Plane like the low angled Stanley No. 140, this is a semi-rare collectors tool (see here for details) that is often missing parts and attracts a higher price . Lie-Nielsen makes a better, complete and modern version of the skew block plane

Ultimately your plane collection wil grow and grow and grow and that is a good thing as each tool serves a special purpose and function. I would get both to start.

However have you considered a larger bevel up plane combined with a shooting board. This is a top way to clean up end grain.

Have you seen this review by Alf of the Veritas BU jack

See these two articles by Derek:

http://www.wkfinetools.com/contrib/d...e/whatPlan.asp

http://www.wkfinetools.com/contrib/d...oard/index.asp

Originally Posted by mick59wests

My plane collection is starting to grow faster than I had expected and I will avoid getting both if I can.

Mick who are you kidding?
You'll end up with both and almost certainly more than one of each!

but back to your question

Will the shoulder plane work on end-grain as good as a low angled block plane?

in terms of planing geometry, yes

BUT
it will probably be too narrow (campared to a block plane) to do it well or to cut the full width of the end grain in one pass.


shoulder planes are narrow compared to their length and height.
the blade is located towards the middle of the sole and is slightly wider (0.1 mm or so) than the plane itself — this allows the blade to cut right into the corner between the shoulder and tenon
the idea is that the front of the plane can register on a tenon's shoulder before the blade starts cutting and the heel of the plane is still registered when the blade clears the stock — helping you keep shoulder square

the only readily available block plane that I know of that comes close to the over full width blade on a shoulder plane is Lie Nielsen's #60½R
But I will argue that the plane's nose is too short, and the sole too wide, to successfully use it as a shoulder plane on anything smaller than a 2 x 4
— for sure others will disagree


the blade on most block planes doesn't extend to the edge of the plane body so it is not particularly useful for creating crisp internal corners on a tenon shoulder.

I have been looking at buying a low angled block plane (second hand - Stanley 60 1/2 is current thinking) but then started reading about shoulder planes.

IMO a good first choice


ian

I wouldn't buy a 140....not that I don't like using mine. At work theres a couple too. All the blades feels too thin for my liking. and the lever cap has a silly little wheel on it with too much play in it. It makes good with grain (not full width of blade though) and cross grain cuts mind you. But there not that great on end grain IMO. That lie nelison plane be great no doubt though. But the sharpening of them is more involved because there skewed.

I'd get yourself a large dedicated shoulder plane and don't muck about if your into doing your tenons by hand. Heavy steel one. Clifton, veritas or an old stanley or whatever. A deep shoulder plane will be more stable running off shoulders too over a 140.

Depending on budget... an option that's a cross between a shoulder and block plane is the LN Rabbet Block Plane. It's open on both sides (allowing change in direction if needed), is wide as a block plane and same low angle. Only draw back is it's mouth isn't adjustable. If Veritas had one it would be in my bag of tricks - hint hint Mr. Lee .

Will the shoulder plane work on end-grain as good as a low angled block plane?

Hi Mick

It is not that one could not use a shoulder plane on endgrain ala a LA block plane, it is just that it is not designed for this purpose.

A shoulder plane is designed for trimming the endgrain of shoulders ... duh Derek ... OK, what I mean is that the plane is designed to make a cut that it about 1/4" - 3/4" wide. Generally the plane is rested on its side against the tenon. In other words the taller the shoulder plane, the greater the registration it obtains when used on its side, and the more stable is the cut.

The trouble is that the opposite occurs as well, that is, the taller the plane, the less registration and less stability it will have when used in an upright position. This is why narrow (e.g. 3/4" wide) shoulder planes are not great for trimming tenon faces.

Two exceptions may be noted: the first is a wide (at least 1 1/4") shoulder plane. The other is a low shoulder plane of moderate width (e.g. The 1" wide Stanley #93).

A block plane is used for trimming, smoothing end grain and chamfering edges. Ideally it fits in one hand and this is a balanced operation. Ideally, also, the mouth is wide enough to permit thicker shavings on demand, or can be closed up when planing face grain. I think that most shoulder planes will struggle to do this.

If finances are an issue and you can only buy one, and you cut a fair amount of M&T joints by hand, my recommendation is to go for the shoulder plane. Get a cheap block plane (such as a #220) to go on with.

If you are not cutting all your M&T joints by handsaw, then I'd rather have a block plane and use a chisel to trim the occasional joint. A decent block plane can be one of the most used planes in a workshop.

At the end of the day, if you predominantly use handtools, you will need both.

Regards from Perth

Derek

to all,

thanks all for the replies (and Derek, I was hoping you might see the thread and offer me some further information). At the moment I am doing M & T joints for a table and my 'planing' is being done mostly with a file! It is cedar - I cut the tenons a little big and then file them back. Obviously this is not the most efficient way to do things but with the tools I have got this is working OK.

My next projects do not involve M & T joints so I'll just keep looking for a second hand shoulder plane.

cheers

Mick