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  1. #136
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    Dec 2013
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    Default

    On the subject of Blue saw blades I made a post here (Stiffening, the next chapter of my questions about Disstons' methods of sawsmithing) that seems to converge with this thread. I didn't want to further pollute Paul's Simonds thread but I've made a blade with a blue finish.
    Innovations are those useful things that, by dint of chance, manage to survive the stupidity and destructive tendencies inherent in human nature.

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  3. #137
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    Default

    Glad to say the pics are working now. Great read getting me up to date.

    Does not seem anyone has picked the the diffference from the 9 to the 10 yet

    Dave TTC
    Turning Wood Into Art

  4. #138
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    Dave

    They's not looking hard enough!

    A little clue would be that it is all in the fine print!

    I did wonder what oics were, but I think it could be your phone's interpretation of "pics."



    Regards
    Paul
    Bushmiller;

    "Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"

  5. #139
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    Default

    I'll have to go back and edit 😉

    Dave TTC
    Turning Wood Into Art

  6. #140
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    Default

    No Dave. Don't do that or I will have to edit all my posts too!!!

    Regards
    Paul
    Bushmiller;

    "Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"

  7. #141
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    Mar 2015
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    Chicago
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    Default

    Paul,
    Thanks for the lessons. When her majesty wanted to paint a picture on one of two flea market finds, I thought the detail on the Simonds saw was worth saving. That was my introduction to the world (sickness) of collecting old saws.

  8. #142
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    CH

    Good to see you found your way here and very good to hear that saw sickness prevailed over majesticness (is that a word). The subject of painted saws is very controversial amongst saw collectors and not a little provocative. However as you can see in the post below, not all is lost.

    A couple of Simonds rescues.

    Regards
    Paul
    Bushmiller;

    "Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"

  9. #143
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    CH

    I should also say welcome to the Forums too. Without showing too much bias, I think this thread is a perfect place to start.

    Regards
    Paul
    Bushmiller;

    "Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"

  10. #144
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    Default The Bay State range

    The major handsaw manufacturers all had secondary lines. Perhaps I should qualify that as really some of them are better described as alternative lines. For example Atkin's Sheffield saws were a really good saw. Disston, because they had absorbed so many other companies, quite often continued to produce saws under the original names. Disston had absorbed around twenty companies by the start of WW1 including many revered names.

    Simonds did not appear to do that and adopted a slightly different approach. They had a line of saws made under the Bay State name that sold for the same price as their No.10 and No.10 1/2 saws, which were the cheapest saw sold with the Simonds name on them.

    In the hand saw line, which included rip saws and panel saws there were only three models.

    The first is the No.24, which is a skew back model. Very appealing and primarily sold with a carved Cherry handle. It appears in the 1903 and 1907 catalogues, but is listed as having a blue saw plate. Either the blue finish does not endure or it was available in a polished finish also, although with this saw there is no mention of this. Other blue blades within the Simonds range did offer the choice of blue or polished finish.

    The No.24 was in fact slightly more expensive than Simonds No.10 and No.10 1/2.

    Bay State No.24 001.jpgBay State No.24 002.jpgBay State No.24 003.jpgBay State No.24 004.jpg

    The second saw is the No.25, which was another skewback. This saw was almost identical to the No. 24 except it had a Birch (not Beech) handle. This is the early model. This example has a Warranted Superior medallion. I don't know if it is correct. Increasingly I think it may be a substitute except that I have a Bay State back saw with the same set up.

    Bay State No.25 early 001.jpgBay State No.25 early 002.jpgBay State No.25 early 003.jpgBay State No.25 early 004.jpg

    This is the later model No.25 with a very different etch and a different medallion:

    Bay State No.25 late 001.jpgBay State No.25 late 002.jpgBay State No.25 late 003.jpgBay State No.25 late 004.jpg

    Finally the straight back No.26

    Bay State No.26 001.jpgBay State No.26 002.jpgBay State No.26 003.jpgBay State No.26 004.jpg

    This saw has the later etch but the earlier medallion. It also has wheat carving only on the grip of the handle. There is wheat carving on the grip and flat of the handle (all Bay State models) up to the 1912 catalogue, but from 1916 onwards only the grip is carved. I have a 1914 catalogue to come at some stage so that may have more information when I receive it.

    Hardly a secondary line at all, the Bay State range has a huge appeal to me and I would be very keen to acquire a "blue" finish model.

    One final point to ponder is that the etch shown on the No.24 only appears in the 1903 catalogue: Not even 1907.

    Regards
    Paul
    Bushmiller;

    "Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"

  11. #145
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    Default Not the Real Deal

    Not everything that comes up with the Simonds name is the real deal. To illustrate this I saw on Ebay recently what at first glance looks like one of those saws that can be used as a square, although most people will tell you that they are not accurate.

    That may be true, but probably it is good enough for general building work. This is the saw:

    Simonds remodeled No.10.jpgSimonds remodeled No.10 left side.jpg

    The big giveaway is that for some reason the saw bolts have been reversed and the slotted nut has been put on the left (wrong) side. Secondly these type of saws always had a ruler down the saw back (normally 24"). Sometimes they had a spirit level and an awl too (Like Disston's early No.43 not the "Victory" model made during WW2).

    However the big issue is that Simonds did not produce one of these saws with their name on it. In their budget range the Algonquin was this type of saw doubling as a square and ruler:

    Simonds Algonquin.jpgSimonds Algonquin 002.jpgSimonds Algonquin 003.jpg

    Sorry I'm afraid I have not had time to clean this one up yet.

    So the buyer of the Simonds above (he paid US $30) will be disappointed if he thought he was getting anything other than a user. I think it started out life as a No.10 and has had one saw bolt removed to accommodate the brass square, which has not be done too badly.

    Having said all that, (one of my favourite expressions I use when I am about to contradict myself) I bought this Disston a short while ago:

    Disston Iroquois.jpgDisston Iroquois 2.jpgDisston Iroquois 3.jpgDisston Iroquois 4.jpg

    Of course it is not a Disston: It is a budget(only one other model, The Sioux, was cheaper) saw from the Simonds range. It has the wrong medallion and the bottom saw nut is obviously a mis-fit. I have seen much better handles too, but I think it will repair. The difference between this saw and the Simonds at the start of the post is that I bought this one knowing it was not a Disston, but a saw I was chasing. My biggest challenge now is to work out the correct Warrented Superior medallion that should be on it.

    Regards
    Paul
    Bushmiller;

    "Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"

  12. #146
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    Default

    Just occasionally I step outside my framework of collecting Simonds hand saws. For example I have a small charm of a Simonds saw and a glass frame advertising crosscut saws, but generally I try not to be sucked into everything and anything Simonds.

    However, here we go, a short while ago I saw a listing for a Simonds chisel and it displayed the logo. Although I had never seen chisels in their catalogues I only have catalogues up until 1923 so it was quite conceivable that Simonds did produce them. They certainly had a range of machine knives so not too much of a stretch to think they produced chisels at some later stage. This is what I received:

    Simonds chisel 001.jpgSimonds chisel 002.jpg

    However I think it is a reasonable attempt at manufacturing a chisel in the home workshop. When I looked at the chisel in the flesh it looks more like it is a piece of their toolsteel flatbar which accounts for the logo. The real giveaway to my mind is the high shoulder on the blade just before the ferrule and the relatively small bevel along each side of the length of the blade, which is perfectly uniform. The ferrule at the hitting end of the handle looks like it is not up to serious pain.

    It is sharp and seems to retain a good edge. I keep it on the work bench as one of my knockabout tools so I am not too aggrieved.

    Regards
    Paul
    Bushmiller;

    "Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"

  13. #147
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    Simonds did make plane blades for the Rogers Mitre Planers in the 1890s.
    The Rogers Miter Planer

  14. #148
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    Thanks Gavin.

    I might have known that the super sleuths would track something like that down, but how the hell did you know? Or did you stumble on it? I have a standing joke at work that some of my most notable successes have in fact been "stumbles." The only slight problem is that you can count them on the fingers of a badly damaged hand.

    However, that is a good find and lends some credence to it being a genuine article. At this stage and without any more evidence to corroborate I will still go with home made.

    Regards
    Paul
    Bushmiller;

    "Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"

  15. #149
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    Default History

    From the outset I stated that the history of Simonds is sketchy. In another thread on the new release of Doggie's (Dick Lynch) book "Collecting Titan Chisels."

    Long time coming

    It is an amazing book. However, Hiroller suggested a "Collecting Simonds Saws" could be on the horizon. Well probably not, but he did bring up some interesting data on the old factories, which are no longer occupied. This is an extract from Doggie's thread as it was on the verge of a hijack.

    It is a response to the suggestion of fronting up to their front door and demanding an audience.

    I think if you fronted up to the office you might get a better response!
    If you were a student you could stay in the old factory.

    Old Simonds factory building opens as Fitchburg student housing - News - telegram.com - Worcester, MA
    Just don't go visiting the Lockport factory.
    Radiation Exposure - Simonds Saw Steel: Lipsitz & Ponterio

    Simonds moved the head office to the first windowless factory in the world in the early 1930s. It was air conditioned and without any natural light: A totally controlled atmosphere. I believe they still operate from this building.

    Regards
    Paul
    Bushmiller;

    "Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"

  16. #150
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    There seems to be few people who have bothered putting something together re Simonds in the past:

    Simonds Manufacturing Company - Fitchburg, MA

    Simonds Homepage and History

    http://home.iprimus.com.au/metzke/Simonds.html

    It just needs someone to pull it all together and what better start than this thread!
    I notice that Simonds are a business member of the Fitchburg Historical Society, and the newest building at the Fitchburg Museum is the Simonds Room.
    Business Members « Fitchburg Historical Society






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