Thread: The Simonds Saw Story

When Simonds entered the hand saw market in 1900 they pretty much had the range all organised and it appears from day one all saws were available.

In fact the back saw side of things hardly varied at all. The No.95 was the mitre saw. The Nos. 96 and 97 were in the Simonds range with the difference between the two being the handle material with Apple and Beech respectively. The Bay State No.98 had a simplified handle also in Beech as was the No.99 named Babbitt, which was the budget model. All these saws endured until the demise of handsaw production in 1926. At times there was some variation of size available. In some catalogues 6" versions are mentioned ( interestingly in the No.98 and No.99 lower priced saws).

However in the 1916 catalogue two different small saws appear for the first time. The No.170, which was a back saw with an open handle and this saw:

Simonds No.166 face.jpgSimonds No.166 back.jpg

Designated the No.166 it is small, being only 7 1/4" long and originally having a plate depth of 1 1/4". It was described as a pattern makers saw and is 21 gauge with 15ppi. So quite a delicate little number. This one is mine but I have not yet taken possession. These are the pix from Ebay. Although the saw is diminutive, I don't think it has been sharpened much, but I won't know until I receive it (sometime early next year).

I think (am hoping) it will clean up nicely.

Regards
Paul

Paul I only just paid attention now to your August post (ad well as todays)

I think you may need to temove another wall in tour shed for lighting. My poor old eyes had to turn my phone brightness up full to view your first pic. I know a demolition man if you need one. Mind you if you knew someone in the power industry you might be able to get some more lights out there. Just saying.

Like your new purchase. Is that overseas or here in Oz. Cant wait to see some better pics

Dave TTC
Turning Wood Into Art

Dave

If you're not going to pay attention, we won't be able to let you sit in a privileged position at the back of the class .

Oh dear, the eyes are going. I don't like to say what this is the first sign of! The problem is I think I took those pix outside and you know how much sunshine we get up here! Ok, a couple of pix were inside. It may have been "mood lighting." You know, dark when things are turning to fertiliser.

The 166 (sounds like an early Ferrari. I wonder if Simplicity will pick up on that and want me to paint it italian racing red) is in California as I write. I have to schedule a shipment early in January so perhaps then.

I am interested to see it too.

Regards
Paul

Italian racing red

Or do we mean this to be more precise

n a RGB color space, hex #ff2800 (also known as Ferrari Red) is composed of 100% red, 15.7% green and 0% blue. Whereas in a CMYK color space, it is composed of 0% cyan, 84.3% magenta, 100% yellow and 0% black


But I did just google cut and paste
And I'm very very very tired lol

I didn't know that Matt .

Just a quick question, which may require you to revisit Mr. Google, How does the letter "K" represent black in a four colour printing process. Also, without wanting to be branded as pedantic, in the RGB colour space if red is 100% how can there be anything else? Just asking .

Happy to wait for your return to the land of the living before expecting a reply .

Regards
Paul

Hi Bushmiller
Do you have any Simonds backsaws?
Alan

Hi Alan

Funny that you should ask that.

Yes I do. I confess to quite a few and would ask that more be taken into consideration when judgement is made: As a couple more are on their way in the next shipment.

Regards
Paul

Recently I was successful in obtaining two Simonds catalogues from 1904 and 1905. This is the 1905 edition, which is interesting for a couple of reasons. The first is that it is a collector's item in it's own right. I use the catalogues and advertisements and indeed any other literature I can get my hands on to piece together the timeline and the small nuances of change that occurred during the Simonds hand saw period.

This edition does indeed do that and has changed a particular issue, but more on that a bit later.

When I purchased this book I thought it was just another catalogue: Not so and you can see one aspect of the difference in the third picture below compared to my 1903 catalogue. It is huge. More than that, this edition is leather bound and gilt edged. In between every page is a blank page too.

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Included with the book were two (the same) discount sheets


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The edition was destined for the Pacific coast and Simonds must have been agents for a number of other items as there is a reference to a separate pump catalogue and a number of pumps are also featured. The one shown is a feed pump I think probably for a low pressure boiler.

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A number of automatic (and manual) machines are included for the timber industry. These are some of the machines:

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Regards
Paul

When Simonds first entered the hand saw market in 1900 (from the promotional stamps produced for the Paris Exposition of the same year) the logo on the saw plate and medallion featured a crescent moon and star and until now I had believed that this style was continued until around 1906 as the 1907 catalogue showed the later Simonds logo and what I call the manufacturing medallion.

I now have to revise this time line as the 1905 catalogue clearly shows the later logo on all the saws. There is an exception to this in that the page depicting the "A" saws, which feature the metal lower guard, show the medallion with the old Crescent Moon and Star. However I think that this was just the use of an old letterpress plate (the same one shown in the 1903 catalogue: Possibly an economy measure.

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This shows the blank page

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and a close up of the logo which is much simplified compared to the later more flowery style:
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The medallion is not so clear because of the pixels and a relatively coarse count, but obviously the manufacturing style:

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this is the exception on the "A" models.

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In fact I know that this new style of logo was used in the later part of 1904 as I have a catalogue from that year ( have not received it yet), but it is not a full edition.

s-l1600.jpgs-l1600 (1).jpg

It is actually dated December 1904 so the Crescent Moon and Star logo was used for an even shorter period, possibly only mid way into 1904 allowing for lead times in printing and the change of machinery.

Regards
Paul

That's a decent catalogue there Paul.
I can tell you were pretty happy un rapping that one.

Cheers Matt


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Along with the catalogue I also received the diminutive No.166 Patternmakers saw, which I mentioned in earlier posts.

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This saw, which I count as 15ppi (not 17ppi as declared in the catalogue) really is tiny as you can see in the pix below. I have a hand (actually both hands) that is just marginally above average size and I can only get two fingers into the grip. Even the thickness of the handle is small at 16.5mm (most hand saws of this era are around 23/24mm).

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Really it could be considered a child's saw: A small child at that. But it is not: It was a precision saw intended for the very precise work required in the Pattern maker's trade. The blade length is 7 1/2" with an overall length of 11". I cleaned just the etch area sufficiently to see the Simonds logo. This saw has been sharpened as a crosscut and the plate is .030", which is a little thicker than I was expecting, but probably because there is no back for rigidity as with the tenon and dovetail styles.
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Apologies for the sweaty hand. The pix were taken late in the evening when it was cooling down a little but you can see the temp on the digital thermometer. It had previously climbed to 43.5 degs.

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Regards
Paul

Matt

The most pleasing aspect of that catalogue was being completely unaware of what I had really purchased in terms of quality and presentation. The spine is a little worn, but in many ways it all adds to the character.

Regards
Paul

I had relied on my memory when quoting figures: Big mistake.

As you can see from a catalogue pic the No.166 was 15ppi. It was the Prof. Ball backsaw and the dovetail saw I was thinking of which are both 17ppi.

thumb_P1020574_1024.jpg

I also took the opportunity to measure the blade depth and it was exactly 1 1/4". So it may never have been sharpened. Certainly
the teeth are blunt.

Regards
Paul

Paul,

Try looping your little finger under the bottom of the handle. Works for me and I've seen others of this type with gentle relief cuts on the bottom edges to more comfortably accommodate the grip.

Regards,
Rob