Thread: The Simonds Saw Story

Ill wait

Dave TTC
Turning Wood Into Art

Originally Posted by Sawdust Maker

I'd rather not run the risk of breaching copyright
I'll see if I can get permission from Yaffa publishing whom close at 5pm so I missed them by about 20 minutes

I think it is both wise & polite not to post pics you've used for published material without the express permission of the publisher. I made sure I kept a few pics that were clearly different from the ones I sent in to AWR for the couple of articles I've done, that way I can use them as I please with no moral or legal issues...

Paul has probably seen all this but Wictor Kuc has pages on Simonds ... including ...

a page that maybe seems to announce getting into the handsaw business (bit catty ) ... Simonds Hand Saws Announcement - Carpentry and Building, 1902

sale cases ... The Simonds Hand Saw Cases - The Iron Age, Vol. 70, November 6, 1902

and two saws after Daryl Weir had his way with them ...
#5 .. One of the better curly apple handles I've seen... - Simonds Handsaw No. 5 by Daryl Weir
#72 .. Simonds Mfg. Co. Handsaw No. 72, Premium Blue Ribbon

Thanks Paul

I hadn't in fact seen those articles, although I had seen the No.5 and have a picture of it. I think Darryl Weir sold it on Ebay a while back.

Regards
Paul

"A TIP

I was just talking to a couple of saw users this weekend and we got on the subject of the best way to get a saw started in the cut. Here's a little pointer I gave them for getting their cross cut and rip saws started. Most things you read will tell you to guide the saw with your thumb and drag the saw backward to start the kerf, which to me works like crap, especially the coarser the teeth get.

Instead, lower the butt end of the saw (handle end) closer to the surface of what's being cut, guide the point end of the saw with your thumb, line up the saw with your marked line & push the saw forward to start the kerf. I'll guarantee you're going to notice right away how much easier this is. As you progress with the kerf, keep raising the butt end until you reach the angle of attack that works for you.

Daryl Weir
May, 2014"

There are pages and pages descending from these links ... Simonds Manufacturing Company - Fitchburg, MA

Originally Posted by pmcgee

"A TIP

I was just talking to a couple of saw users this weekend and we got on the subject of the best way to get a saw started in the cut. Here's a little pointer I gave them for getting their cross cut and rip saws started. Most things you read will tell you to guide the saw with your thumb and drag the saw backward to start the kerf, which to me works like crap, especially the coarser the teeth get.

Instead, lower the butt end of the saw (handle end) closer to the surface of what's being cut, guide the point end of the saw with your thumb, line up the saw with your marked line & push the saw forward to start the kerf. I'll guarantee you're going to notice right away how much easier this is. As you progress with the kerf, keep raising the butt end until you reach the angle of attack that works for you.

Daryl Weir
May, 2014"

With over 1/4 of a century of hands on experience as a chippy I would agree with this tip

Dave TTC
Turning Wood Into Art

Originally Posted by DaveTTC

With over 1/4 of a century of hands on experience as a chippy I would agree with this tip

Dave TTC
Turning Wood Into Art

Yep, I think we all tend to discover this after a few sessions with hand saws. It's virtually essential when starting rip saws, especially those with humongous fangs like my progressive-pitch Disston rip. Ripsaws don't do much when drawn back, but they will wear a bit of wood away from a corner and eventually produce a small flat. I think the 'draw back' technique is really more applicable to cross-cut saws, because the teeth have 'knife' edges on both front & back. Dragging these 'knives' back does cut the wood, and produces a wider flat, giving you a better chance of starting smoothly when you push forward..

Cheers,

Ian

I think you've nailed it. On second thoughts, best to use a hammer for that .

Regards
Paul

Paul

Some very interesting information there. One of the big questions about Simonds is when did they start producing handsaws?

From this I think their first foray into the market was during the 1900 Paris Exposition when they produced a series of postage stamps, one of which specifically identified hand saws:

Simonds 1900 stamps..jpg

It is my guess that they made some one-offs to gauge the market and real production did not commence until possibly 1902. There is reference in your links to a 1902 catalogue that features handsaws. However I am not sure to what extent that might have been. A friend has the 1903 catalogue, which he has shared with me and there is only a single saw festured: The No.4. In the 1903 catalogue it looked nothing like later No.4s which were a dead ringer for Disston's iconic No.12

You can see below that they made reference to a separate catalogue for handsaws and the saw featured looks more like a No.8. It may even have been an error.

Simonds 1903 catalogue. No.4.jpg



Perhaps in going for the top of the line Disston No.12, it was like going for the jugular. Simonds were in the handsaw market and they meant business. By 1907, by which time they had dispensed with the Crescent Moon and Star medallion in favour of the maufacturing medallion, there were eight saws in the Simonds range, three in the Bay State range (this was in subsequent years reduced to two models) and eight saws in what I call the third level range.

Regards
Paul

Hello Paul,

I have just been looking through this topic about Simonds saws.

Once again you have done a lot of research on a particular subject
and presented it in a clear fashion that is easy to follow, well done.

You also have some great saws to present to us.

I would like to show the Simonds saws that I have found here in SA,
some have been cleaned up some are still waiting.

I have used my copy of The Astragal Press's "The Handsaw Catalog Collection"
with the section on Simonds Mfg. Co. 1910, to try and identify my saws,
but feel free to correct me if I have made any mistakes.

First is a 28" 5 ppi #8 rip saw, which has been well used and sharpened
second is a 26" 6 ppi #8 hand saw, with a lot of width left in its blade
third is a 24" 10 ppi #8 panel saw, also with a lot of width left
fourth is a 24" 10 ppi #7 panel saw, also with good width but minus nib
fifth is a 30" 4 1/2 ppi #347 docking saw that was in a poor way
but now has a fresh set of teeth to scare wood with.

Apart from the docking saw they all have the "third period" medallion.

Simonds saws seem to be pretty thin around here, with Disston leading
the way with overall numbers, there is also quite a variety of English saws
both early and late that show up.

It may have something to do with SA not being a convict colony,
who knows???

Anyway thanks for looking

Regards Graham

Graham

Thank you for posting those pix: A very nice group of saws and I wouldn't dispute any of those identifications. With the saw you have identified as a No.7, it could also be a No.71. Can you see three etches?

Regards
Paul

Paul,

I have had another look at the 24" straight back panel saw.

It does have a third etch to the right near the handle, but
not the same as you have shown.

It is the name of an old Adelaide general merchant store.
the etch reads as:

Geo. P Harris
Scarfe & Co.Ltd
Adelaide Sth. Australia

A brief history: George P. Harris arrived in SA 1849
in 1866 he formed the company with George Scarfe
in 1920 the name changed to Harris Scarfe Ltd. and
its product range included: farm & garden implements,
buggyware, tools, hardware & homeware.
The is still trading today.

Having another look at my 1910 catalogue, I was wrong
with caling it a #7 (which has the carving on the cheek as well
as the grip)
There is a #10 which it looks like, except the #10 is described as
having its handle made of Beech, where as my saws handle is apple.

I then had a look in my reprint 1919 catalogue and it has the #71
as you have suggested, all the details match.

So I wonder if as the product range changed and shrank
the old #10 became the new#71????

Regards

Graham.

Graham

I have access to quite a few catalogues and what is clear is that Simonds evolved their saws over time. The earlier saw had more detail and finesse compared to later saws. This was true of other manufacturers in this era, not just Simonds.

The No. 7 featured from 1907 through to 1919 (this is just based on catalogues so it could be slightly longer at both ends) and the No. 10 even longer right up to the demise of their handsaw production in 1926.

Early No.7s had wheat carving on the grip and the flat up until at least 1912 (maybe 1915). The 1916 catalogue shows wheat carving on the grip only as does the 1919 catalogue.

I would suggest that with the hardware etch it is not a No.71. I haven't seen the Blue Ribbon saws made available to retailers to add their own etch. Also it would have been in the way of the Simonds guarantee etch (the third etch on those models) which read:

"This saw is covered by the broadest Simonds guarantee."

So I would lean in favour of your first thoughts that it is a No.7

The No.10 also evolved quite a bit. In the 1907 catalogue it had a lambs tongue handle and the medallion was the second saw nut from the bottom. In 1910 and 1912 the lambs tongue had gone but there was wheat carving on the grip and the medallion had been moved to the bottom position.
From 1916 onwards the carving had disappeared.

However in the 1923 catalogue the medallion was moved to the same position as 1907: One up from the bottom. The No.10 always had a Beech handle and was the only saw in the range to have that with the Simonds name on it.

It all gets very confusing when trying to identify without the advantage of the model number etched into the saw plate.

By the way, it looks as if you have done a really good job on sharpening the docking saw as, from your pix, the teeth were originally in a very bad state. I have an identical model, which is on the restoration list, but quite a long way down.

Regards
Paul