Thread: Triangular needle files for sharpening dovetail and gent's handsaws

Jewellers supplies all carry needle files they will be high quality and not cheap.

don't buy any cheap ones in sets where the whole set costs something like a good jeweler's needle file costs as one file.

If you can find 4xx and 5xx slim triangular files, you will be able to handle anything down to about 16 tpi. I never cared for needle files for saws, but it's also true that it's not always easy to find good fine-edged xx slim triangular files.

the only advantage I can think of with needle files will be if you are using a plate that's a bit too hard (sometimes the best jeweler's files are a couple of points harder than the typical taper saw file).

Oz, as China says, jewellers suppliers are your best bet for needle files. Order 4-cut files if there is a choice. The bigger the number the finer the teeth, and #4 is a good pitch for saw sharpening, it cuts fast but leaves a smooth surface. Gemcuts & Australian Jewellers Supplies both carry #4s (or did last time I looked)...

Needle files are good for teeth from about 15tpi up to ~30tpi (which is the finest I've ever managed!). They cut fast despite the fine teeth, just a single light stroke is usually all that's required when re-sharpening. Glardons (made in Vallorbe, Switzerland), have been consistently good & reliable in my experience. They are certainly not cheap, at about $17 each here, but they last a long time, I typically get 10 or 12 re-sharpens from one file. As D.W. suggested, avoid the cheap & cheerful packs, you might get lucky & strike some good ones, but they are usually extremely variable in quality. There is nothing worse than a file that dulls quickly or sheds its corners when it comes to saw filing, it is near-impossible to maintain consistency from tooth to tooth, and you are likely to end up with a very unsightly mess!.

As to "regular" saw files, the smaller ones are becoming more & more difficult to source here. I'm currently just finishing a pack of Bahco 5" XXS which I like to use for ~12 tpi saws (a very common pitch for medium-small backsaws). I'm sure I got the last pack from Total Tools, I couldn't see them on their website on a quick search, but I have the product code (188-05-2), so I should be able to find them somewhere in the country with a bit of searching & a few phone calls..

The small regular files like 4"XXS should handle up to 18tpi, but they can be terribly inconsistent, varying from batch to batch (in all brands that I've used). Apart from variation in hardness, the corner radii vary, and are often fatter than they should be for the size of file, which produces all gullet with funny little blips for teeth. Often enough, no two corners on the file are the same, which can make it difficult to do a really good job of sharpening. I've found the Swiss needle files reliably consistent from file to file & batch to batch, which was the main reason I switched to using them for all saws from about 15 tpi up, years ago....

Cheers,

Hi Oz. Next time you come west of the black spur you should drop in to to AA Industrial in Bayswater. They seem to have a good range of small triangular files so might have needle files too.

Hi Ian,

I found a seller of Bahco files on Facebook Marketplace. They should have the type of files i"m looking for (the 4-cut you mentioned)...??

Originally Posted by IanW

Oz, as China says, jewellers suppliers are your best bet for needle files. Order 4-cut files if there is a choice. The bigger the number the finer the teeth, and #4 is a good pitch for saw sharpening, it cuts fast but leaves a smooth surface. Gemcuts & Australian Jewellers Supplies both carry #4s (or did last time I looked)...

Needle files are good for teeth from about 15tpi up to ~30tpi (which is the finest I've ever managed!). They cut fast despite the fine teeth, just a single light stroke is usually all that's required when re-sharpening. Glardons (made in Vallorbe, Switzerland), have been consistently good & reliable in my experience. They are certainly not cheap, at about $17 each here, but they last a long time, I typically get 10 or 12 re-sharpens from one file. As D.W. suggested, avoid the cheap & cheerful packs, you might get lucky & strike some good ones, but they are usually extremely variable in quality. There is nothing worse than a file that dulls quickly or sheds its corners when it comes to saw filing, it is near-impossible to maintain consistency from tooth to tooth, and you are likely to end up with a very unsightly mess!.

As to "regular" saw files, the smaller ones are becoming more & more difficult to source here. I'm currently just finishing a pack of Bahco 5" XXS which I like to use for ~12 tpi saws (a very common pitch for medium-small backsaws). I'm sure I got the last pack from Total Tools, I couldn't see them on their website on a quick search, but I have the product code (188-05-2), so I should be able to find them somewhere in the country with a bit of searching & a few phone calls..

The small regular files like 4"XXS should handle up to 18tpi, but they can be terribly inconsistent, varying from batch to batch (in all brands that I've used). Apart from variation in hardness, the corner radii vary, and are often fatter than they should be for the size of file, which produces all gullet with funny little blips for teeth. Often enough, no two corners on the file are the same, which can make it difficult to do a really good job of sharpening. I've found the Swiss needle files reliably consistent from file to file & batch to batch, which was the main reason I switched to using them for all saws from about 15 tpi up, years ago....

Cheers,

it's unfortunately true that it's a double crap shoot getting good corners - first in getting a brand that makes them about right on purpose, and second, getting a package where the corners are the same on all 36 of a dozen files.

Fortunately, what you say is also correct - a saw in good shape, especially one with small teeth, usually only needs one even stroke per tooth up and down the saw. I find even on big rip saws, it's about 2 or 3 and so far in probably filing rip saws 50 times, I've never come close to needing to joint anything.

The jeweler's files are probably the only accurate small files left because it's the only place where there's a professional market that will pay for them to be made well and who would complain if they weren't.

Originally Posted by Ozymandiaz

Hi Ian,

I found a seller of Bahco files on Facebook Marketplace. They should have the type of files i"m looking for (the 4-cut you mentioned)...??

Dunno Oz - I've not seen any Bahco needle files - do they make them? The Bahco files I was referring to are "regular" files.

What's the tpi of the saw you need to sharpen? If it's in the 16-18 range, a 4 inch XXS file should handle it unless you are unlucky & strike an outlier that slipped through QC (though sometimes I wonder if current file makers actually practice any quality control!). If you have just the one saw with teeth finer than 15tpi, that may be a good option; needle files aren't essential, I use them because they are reliably consistent and last longer, which matters more when you sharpen a lot of saws regularly. ..
Cheers,

Gasweld in Sydney sells balcony double slim files Ian mentioned, though only in packs of 10.

If anyone wants to split a set I'm up for that.

Regards,

Adam

Originally Posted by IanW

Dunno Oz - I've not seen any Bahco needle files - do they make them?

They used to, at least. IIRC, there was one in the testing batch, which may have been Swiss made.

Originally Posted by FenceFurniture

They used to, at least. IIRC, there was one in the testing batch, which may have been Swiss made.

A pet subject Brett [emoji6].

Cheers Matt.

Originally Posted by FenceFurniture

They used to, at least. IIRC, there was one in the testing batch, which may have been Swiss made.

They still make needle files, and call a triangular file by the older terminology of "3 Square" (which is probably a guarantee for it not to come up in searches). Available in four cuts from Bastard to Dead Smooth.

Search results for: 'needle files' | Bahco International

I think they originated from the purchase of the Oberg File Company. (Swedish?)

The Portuguese manufacturer, Tomé Fetiera, makes needle files and, as Fence Furniture has identified, they tend to be called "three square." Not sure if they are sold in Oz, but if they are like the files I have, which are conventional triangular (DEST etc), they are good quality.

406 – Three square – Tomé Feteira (tomefeteira.com)

Regards
Paul

Originally Posted by Bushmiller

The Portuguese manufacturer, Tomé Fetiera, makes needle files and, as Fence Furniture has identified, they tend to be called "three square." Not sure if they are sold in Oz, but if they are like the files I have, which are conventional triangular (DEST etc), they are good quality.

406 – Three square – Tomé Feteira (tomefeteira.com)

Regards
Paul

Where did you get them from Paul? They had always been on my radar, but never got roundtuit. I always had a sneaking suspicion that Bahco files were made by TF - Bahco files are made in Portugal, and it would seem odd that there would be two file factories in tiny Portugal when there are only ~5 ff in the entirety of Europe. (Glardon, Liogier, the Italian one, the German one)

Originally Posted by FenceFurniture

Where did you get them from Paul? They had always been on my radar, but never got roundtuit. I always had a sneaking suspicion that Bahco files were made by TF - Bahco files are made in Portugal, and it would seem odd that there would be two file factories in tiny Portugal when there are only ~5 ff in the entirety of Europe. (Glardon, Liogier, the Italian one, the German one)

The irony here is that I bought them as NOS from a seller in the US. At the time he was unloading what semed like tons of files, but he has stopped that process now. Also the A$ was in a much better place then and shipping facilities were better too.

Regards
Paul

Edit: I too had heard Bahco were made by TF, but I have to say I have been unable to substantiate that. However, I agree that the chances of two successful file manufacturers in Portugal is more like fantasy world. TF has the long time history.