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  1. #1
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    Default Spearior Mermaid 88 Saw

    Hi, I recently got this saw. I got it for much less than the price on the before picture.



    I cleaned her up as careful as I could and found the etching underneath the rust. From what I found online it is identified as a Spears & Jackson Spearior Mermaid 88. Unfortunately the medallion is missing. I couldn't find much online. Especially not the version with the thumb hole handle. So if anyone has some more info about this saw would be great.
    I am also not sure if the screws were original. They seemed nickel plated brass or so. I had to replace some as the threads were busted. They were also a tad too long.

    However came out nicely and I tried to conserve the etching and also branding on the handle. Including the trace left by Mr S' Smyth.



    Question, is there any way to make the etch more visible? I saw something with blueing liquid. Does anyone have experience with that?



    Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

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  3. #2
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    Looks great CK (is that the right moniker?). I love the beech handles, the fleck in them seems more prominent tban modern day beech. Did you use WD40 and sandpaper? Paul mentioned this "recipe" a littlle while ago, it has worked great on some of my blades , cleaning off the gunk but leaving etch behind

  4. #3
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    Yes, I just used WD40 and WD wrapped around a block of wood. Also on the handle I used sandpaper wrapped around the wood to maintain the branding Spears & Jackson used to have.
    I suspect however someone had worked on the saw before and then it was left again yo rust. That would explain the stripped saw nuts and missing medallion. Maybe they were not as careful....

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  5. #4
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    Hi Cklett,

    I was lucky to pickup this S&J thumb hole 88 at a swap meet for a whopping $15

    It was in pretty good nic, I did a bit of a light cleaning of the blade and removed

    the remains of he old handle finish and applied some fresh shellac

    Graham.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  6. #5
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    That's a nice one. I'd say it's same as mine just nicer [emoji6]




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  7. #6
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    Cklett and Graham

    Two good looking saws for excellent prices. A little bit of information for you but not conclusive as I could not find any thumbhole saws in catalogues. Clearly they existed.

    The No.88 was near the top of the S & J range. 88s had a brass heel plate under the handle (probably not on the thumbhole versions). The "A" suffix meant there was no brass plate. I am uncertain what "P" meant.

    From 1923 with no stamped "Spearior" ( a contraction of Spears and Superior) on the handle:
    S & J 88A 1923.jpg
    From 1930 with a stamped handle.
    S & J 88A 1930.PNG
    From 1939 with the"nonbrake" handle.
    S & J 88P 1939.jpg
    (Pix will appear as thumbnails until I get home and reposition them.)

    Stamping on the handle appeared as early as 1928. I have not pursued the patent date for the non brake handle (pat. 401274). Arguably both your saws could date between 1928 and 1939. After the war and into the sixties (the next date I was able to access) the handle shapes were vastly different and very unattractive.

    Regards
    Paul
    Bushmiller;

    "Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"

  8. #7
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    Paul, I suspect S&J made these saws after the war, too. I had a pretty good verbal history of the one I had, and according to the daughter of the one & only previous owner, it was bought new in the very early 1950s. He had some sort of accident/crisis soon after acquiring the saw, & quit carpentry, so the saw got little or no use. It was in mint condition when I got it, I'm pretty sure I was the first person to take a file to it. It could have been new old stock when the original owner bought it, of course, so it may have been made years before it was purchased. Shipping wasn't as speedy or efficient back then, so it's likely to have taken at least 6 months to a year for a saw made in Sheffield to hit the shelves of a retail store in S.E. Qld.

    How many models did S&J make? I don't think CK's saw or the one I had quite match those in your flyers. Mine was certainly not "mirror finish", it had very coarse sanding marks on its blade, I'd reckon they went no further than 60 grit! The saw above doesn't seem to have a mirror finish either. What it does have, if my eyes aren't deceiving me, is progressive pitch teeth. Mine was 5 - 3 which is the same pattern as the Disston thumbhole that ultimately edged the Spearior out of my toolbox. I find I need to use two files when sharpening these saws, a 6" S or XS for the finer teeth at the toe, and a whopping great 8" for the larger teeth. The corners of the big file are too fat for the smaller teeth & the 6" that does fit them nicely isn't wide enough to fill the gullets of the big ones.

    They are great saws for ripping heavy stock. I used mine last year for some heroic ripping! Radiata isn't as tough as Ironbark or Spotted Gum, but that job gave me the best 'workshop workout' I've had in many a year.....

    Cheers,
    IW

  9. #8
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    Ian

    My catalogue sources are scant between 1939 and 1961 so you may well be right. I had assumed that S & J continued with the"Nonbrake" handle (see the insert in the third pic), but in 1961 it looks as though they were no longer utilising that feature and the saw handle shape was similar: Something I had previously missed.

    It still refers to a polished finish. Often the factory finish can only be found underneath the handle.

    S & J 88 1961.jpg

    I have not found any references to thumbhole versions in the catalogues, which in itself is a little surprising.

    Regards
    Paul
    Bushmiller;

    "Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"

  10. #9
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    I mentioned before that I had no reference to thumbhole saws: Not quite true. The following pic is from a 1915 catalogue and while there is no picture it clearly states that thumbhole saws are available at no extra charge for versions 28" and longer (just above the prices).

    P1060057 (Medium).JPG

    Something that I had thought to mention before, but didn't, is that S & J make a reference to "silver steel." You may recall that E.C. Atkins used that phrase in their marketing too. I believe Atkins sourced their steel from the UK and it makes me wonder if there was a connection. There is, of course, no silver in these blades. I also note that S & J offered apple handled versions. I wondered if these were destined for the US market where Apple was seen as a superior timber to Beech.

    Regards
    Paul
    Bushmiller;

    "Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"

  11. #10
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    Hi Paul. I often read about people using fruit woods for handles and don't know why. From what I have seen they are usually a finer grain than beech and without the rays, flecks and variations. But are they any better? As a sort of aside I have turned some rhododendren branches and they have a lovely feel, almost buttery (to both the chisel and the hand). This reminds me an awful lot of my Disston handles (which I think are apple)

  12. #11
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    MA

    The British saws used Beech almost exclusively and certainly for their better models in the range. English Beech is different from the American Beech in that the rays are more prominent and there is a much more distinct fleck that generally seems to be absent in American Beech. However that is purely my personal observation and may not be absolutely correct. I am sure somebody will produce an American saw now showing huge rays and prominent fleck.

    Apple wood during the late 19th century and early 20th century was plentiful in the US and was, as you say, close grained and remarkably stable. Although a hardwood, it cut and carved easily and it's workability was it's forte. If it has a downside, and I know that this is provocative to some Forum members, it is usually featureless: Bland if you prefer.

    To a lesser extent the Americans also used Cherry, mainly as an alternative to Beech rather than Apple. Walnut also features in some types of saws. Interestingly almost 100% of saws with a metal reinforcing plate on the handle (usually on one side only) from all the manufacturers either used Walnut or a Walnut finish. Why? I don't know.

    Regards
    Paul
    Bushmiller;

    "Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"

  13. #12
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    Paul, I think you are probably correct in that American Beech tends to have finer rays than the European variety, but there is variability & overlap, so it might be difficult to differentiate them on that characteristic alone. I've read references to colour differences, too, but since colour is not a feature I can deal with, I'd have to leave that to the colour-sighted...

    Functionally, I think you'd strive very hard to find any difference!

    IMO, one reason to use Apple wood is that it easily takes a finish that feels good in the hand. whereas Beech ends up with a coarser surface. After much use & "hand polishing" they all end up pretty smooth & shiny - at least those .aI have are all well-polished. The Americans had plenty of Walnut, which is even easier to work than Apple, but a bit softer & more easily scarred. They seem to have eschewed Walnut for many a year in their high-end furniture, Mahogany was the fashion, so even though Walnut is a lovely wood & almost as nice to work as Cuban Mahogany (imo), Mahogany predominated. The irony is that now furniture of the late 18th/early 19th century tends to be more valuable than equivalent Mahogany examples due to rarity. So fashion always ha to be considered as a factor in choice of materials!

    In my experience, American black Cherry (it's named for the colour of the fruit, not the wood) is slightly tougher than Walnut, but both it & Walnut will give you a nice tactile finish without too much trouble.

    You forgot to mention that some of the top-drawer saws in both the U.S. & Britain had Rosewood handles. Now Rosewood (Dalbergia spp.) is a very nice handle-wood, but definitely harder to work than any of the above. I have never come across a Rosewood-handled saw - maybe they aren't quite as rare as rocking-horse poo, but it must be close...

    Cheers,

    Cheers,
    IW

  14. #13
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    Hi Ian. Which Rosewood did you mean? I had a quick look and there are some from lots of different parts of the world. I have an old #45 combination plane with beautifully striped handles that I read somewhere that are Brazilian Rosewood and a slightly more modern #4 with the same. Most of my other Stanleys are "reddy brown" (more Rosewood?) but not as exciting. Apple is lovely to hold BTW

  15. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanW View Post

    You forgot to mention that some of the top-drawer saws in both the U.S. & Britain had Rosewood handles. Now Rosewood (Dalbergia spp.) is a very nice handle-wood, but definitely harder to work than any of the above. I have never come across a Rosewood-handled saw - maybe they aren't quite as rare as rocking-horse poo, but it must be close...

    Cheers,

    Cheers,
    Ian

    I may have forgotten about Brazillan Rosewood in this thread but not all together.

    Atkins used BR for their 400/401 saws and had what they called a "piano" finish. Think "Baby Grand" look. They used their "Perfection" handle without carving or embossing, which may appeal to you. Some more infomation here:

    https://www.woodworkforums.com/f152/atkins-hundred-finest-earth-220666

    Disston a little later in 1914 produced their D115 (and the straightback version the D15), which was the forerunner to their top of the line Victory saws. More information here:

    A Series of Victorys

    More recently Oraloon alerted us to some centenary saws with Rosewood handles by one of the English Tyzack firms.

    http://www.tyzack.net/Saws.pdf

    Regards
    Paul
    Bushmiller;

    "Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"

  16. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Ash View Post
    ...... Which Rosewood did you mean? I had a quick look and there are some from lots of different parts of the world. I have an old #45 combination plane with beautifully striped handles that I read somewhere that are Brazilian Rosewood and a slightly more modern #4 with the same. Most of my other Stanleys are "reddy brown" (more Rosewood?) but not as exciting. Apple is lovely to hold BTW
    MA, I believe the Rosewood used by Stanley et al was mostly Brazilian Rosewood (Dalbergia nigra). As the species name suggests, it's quite a dark colour. The colour variations you mention may be due to simple biological variation within the species, but there are other Central & southern American Rosewoods that may have been substituted from time to time. More recently, Cocobolo (D. retusa) has been used for tool handles, and the Wood Database describes it thus:
    Color/Appearance: Cocobolo can be seen in a kaleidoscope of different colors, ranging from yellow, orange, red, and shades of brown with streaks of black or purple. Sapwood is typically a very pale yellow. Colors are lighter when freshly sanded/cut, and darken with age;

    There are numerous other related "Rosewoods", the genus is spread across the tropis from Africa to the Americas, e.g. Indian Rosewood (D. sissoo) and African Blackwood (D. melanoxylon), but many woods called "Rosewood" are not related to the Dalbergias at all. Just a few of these include "Scentd Rosewood" (Dysoxylon fraserinum), Western Rosewood (Acacia rhodoxylon) and "New-Guinea Rosewood" (Pterocarpus indicus). Those examples are not even from the same families, & not at all close relatives of the "real" thing. So to (mis)quote the man from the petroleum industry, "rosewoods ain't rosewoods"...

    Cheers,
    IW

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