Thread: Spokeshave advice

Originally Posted by KahoyKutter

.... At this stage, I'm leaning more towards getting the modern Veritas versions for the reasons I outlined in my reply to Rob.....

And I love your custom handles btw. Is it She-Oak, Hairy Oak, or Buloke?.....

Mike, no-one needs to apologise for their tool choices; whether professional or amateur, we all have our own criteria. I would point out though, that pleasure in use has a fair bit to do with how functional a tool is.

I think that a beginner would probably find the Stanley 150 type spokeshave a little quicker to come to grips with (so to speak!) than the Veritas, but imo, the Veritas is a better-made tool even though I didn't like their round handles. A lot of folks (including me) whinged loudly about them when they first came out, and a lot of them (like Mr. Brush), bought the 'kit' to make new handles (which is nothing more than two 1/4" hanger bolts and two threaded brass washers):
Hanger bolts.jpg

.... but never got around to making new handles 'cos they got used to the originals or didn't use them enough to get sufficiently annoyed with them..

My handles are she-oak - one of my favourite handle woods because it's tough and takes a very tactile finish. I took the old wooden spokeshave handles as my guide - I always found them both aesthetically pleasing and comfortable to hold.

6.jpg

If you make shaped handles that need to be in a particular position, it takes a bit of fiddling - that's what the threaded brass washer is for, you screw it back & forth a bit so that the handle tightens in just the right spot. Once you get it there, it's a god idea to use a dab of Loctite or something similar in the threads so they stay put.

And BTW, somehow I ended up with a spare pair of new handles which you are welcome to have for postage if you want to try a different perspective on your Veritas.....

Extra handles.jpg

Cheers,
Ian

Originally Posted by IanW

And BTW, somehow I ended up with a spare pair of new handles which you are welcome to have for postage if you want to try a different perspective on your Veritas.....

Extra handles.jpg

Cheers,
Ian

Thank you for your generous offer, Ian. I will definitely take you up on it. PM incoming.



Cheers,
Mike

There is an episode of The Woodwrights Shop where Roy Underhill interviews Brian Boggs, still available on YT. Brian shows how he uses some of his spokeshave and discusses pros and cons which you might find interesting. I have the LN spokeshave designed by Brian, and it is great - but not a complicated tool. Simple but well executed.

Originally Posted by Fergiz01

There is an episode of The Woodwrights Shop where Roy Underhill interviews Brian Boggs, still available on YT. Brian shows how he uses some of his spokeshave and discusses pros and cons which you might find interesting. I have the LN spokeshave designed by Brian, and it is great - but not a complicated tool. Simple but well executed.

Thanks Fergiz. I'll be sure to watch it.


Cheers,
Mike

Here's the link to the Boggs interview Fergiz mentioned. The audio is out of synch but I found it enlightening particularly the part where they talk about growth rings orientation to minimise and even out the stresses in the chair.

I have the stanley 151 flat and round base, got them for $60 the pair maybe 20 yo, the blades had benn sharpened to the terminal point where they wouldnt expose their edge , i replaced with pmv11 ans A2 rgrom veritas prior to price and shipping explosion, they are very good tools , lapping the flat base is easilly done, and the short blades are used in a stanley 80 scraper, they work well also, all the other advise right on but i had the veritas with the round base, i couldnt tame it , the super tight mouth, and passed it on, just my experience, again the stanley 151,s good tools

Originally Posted by Chief Tiff

Round soled spokeshaves can be awkward to learn on ....

Several have mentioned this - it is perfectly true. Quite a frustrating tool until you get the technique right, then easy. Initially, you really have to think about why it is not cutting well. Then adjust your technique in tiny increments.

Secondly, and especially while you are learning, the blade must be absolutely sharp. A dull blade masks the feedback on technique.

Mr Bush, in your experience, what were the advantages of the HNT Gordon spokeshaves over the Veritas ones?

I found any non-round handle shape to be easier to register in my hands for better control of the blade position on a curved sole spokeshave. The squared off shape of the HNT Gordon helps in this regard, whereas the perfectly round shape of the standard Veritas handles didn't work for me. I had got as far as buying the handle kit to make a set of more rectangulous (is that even a word? I mean some form of rounded off rectangle) handles for the Veritas as IanW has done, but got on so well with the HNT Gordon that I never went back to the Veritas. Mind you, blade setting in the HNT Gordon is tricky until you get the hang of it, whereas the dual adjustment wheels on the Veritas help greatly with this. Both great tools, it just comes down to personal preference. In both cases, a REALLY sharp blade is essential to get good results.

Late to the thread, but I'd add that this is a classic opportunity for some personal tool making. I much prefer traditional low angle wooden shaves for their ease of use. Accordingly, I bought some hock blades, and made my own - you can trick it up with brass and adjusting nuts, but it's not really necessary. Here's a red ironbark large one I made a couple of years ago - it took about half a day, and cuts like a samurai on meth... I'd really, really recommend making your own - if you have the skills to make furniture that require the use of a shave, you definitely have the skills to make one of these -and they cost considerably less than the Veritas/LN option, with the ability to personalise the handholds etc... Easy as, great to use.

Overview - stanley included for scale.20230409_163157.jpg

Escapement.
20230409_163205.jpg

Underside: this shows the most important bit, which is a nice tight mouth...
20230409_163221.jpg

The smaller one is an antique with a curved sole and a brass front. no adjustments other than whacking the blade in or out (the tip about paper on the bench as a spacer above is a good one.). Also cuts like a maniac. 'Cocking' the blade gives great depth control.

20230409_163247.jpg

20230409_163254.jpg

Of note, all traditional shaves have the elegant curve coming 'out' from the centre body like the small one. I don't like it - it can hurt your thumbs where they naturally rest when in pull mode... You'll see that mine has the patented jpdv 'smooth curve' from centre body to handles - much easier to hold in pull mode. (!). I'm making a nicer one at the moment with inlayed banding to give more references for straight work. -I'll post pics when done.
These are tools that can be grossly overthought - my grandfather (time-served pattern-maker) would make them at the bench for each job, spending about 20 minutes start to finish. He loved his tools, but he wouldn't waste a penny/cent.

(Edit - agree re 'non-round' - it's not impossible to use a round one, but it's easier to get a feel for the tool with defined angles/squareness in holding... That's why I suspect traditional ones have the elegant curves, which tell you by feel where you're holding it - difficult to describe, very easy to feel in use...I go for a nice oval handle, oriented in line with direction of push/pull - think a traditional mallet handle, which is not circular for the same reasons of tactile information/feedback.)

Originally Posted by jpdv

........this is a classic opportunity for some personal tool making.......

No doubt one day I'll make my own planes and perhaps even some spokeshaves, but atm, I have too many projects on my "to do" list to even contemplating making my own. And as per my earlier post, as a complete novice, especially when it comes to spokeshaves, I'd rather not introduce another potential problem to the learning process by using a tool that I've made. One must first learn how to walk before learning how to run. With this in mind, first I'll restore some wooden vintage planes (tick), then I'll progress to customising vintage wooden planes (in the process), and then I'll make my own planes (I already have the wood and the hardware).


Cheers,
Mike

'Sfunny, some folks get on super-well with the old traditional shaves, some don't. For someone who has a cupboard full of self-made planes, I only have a single traditional style shave I've made, & it's a miniature:

SS11.jpg

I think the problem was I started out at a very young age with a metal shave. It was an el-cheapo, very basic thing but with a bit of fiddling I could set the blade for a nice cut easily enough. Later, I graduated a pair of Stanleys (150/151), and some time later, I bought my first wooden "trad" model. We got off to a very poor start, unfortunately. I was still a bit of a novice, with little real understanding of planes so I didn't pay much attention to the fact that the mouth was badly worn, which meant my shave either dug-in or ripped out great splinters. I gave it away to someone who wanted to use the blade to make their own. Years later I acquired another, this time with a brass wear strip & in far better condition. It does work well, but I'm so rusted on to my metal shaves that I never think to use it.

But your post has got me thinking, shaves are just as good as project for the home-builder as planes & it's about time I got my act together & had a go at making that round shave I've been thinking about for about the last 15 years......

Cheers,

It's fun Ian, and cheap as chips in relative terms.
The hock blades come with the adjustment nuts. You can go as complex as you like - I posted this one because it's as simple as it gets. You can see a little wear on the picture of the mouth - that's where I'll inlay a brass strip when I get round to it... if I wanted it to be useable by my great-grandchildren, I'd put a brass strip up the top as well, under the adjusters (or use washers,) to spread the wear on the hardwood - but there's no wear to date after 3 years use.
People mess about with depth setting mechanisms, mostly with insert machine/grub screws, between the blade body and sole if needed. (traditional ones have none, and rely on a jammed in fit of the tangs, as you'll know). Ideally, you chisel/rout out the blade recess lightly enough that it seats 'just so' - that's one of the only 2 tricky/finessing bits. I just test and adjust, gluing in a packing piece of waste if I've gone too deep. The only critical bit is cutting the blade recess so that the mouth is as tight as possible. Worst case, you've lost a billet of wood, and gained some understanding of how to do it better....

From my research into spokeshaves thus far, I got the impression the low angle varieties take more getting used to. I saw/read somewhere that the action required to operate low angle spokeshaves involves slightly "tipping" them over and that there was a "knack" to using them. Again, it's all theory and supposition on my part, but I concluded the metal bodied Stanley 151's and subsequent clones with their twin-screw mechanical blade adjustment, would be the best option for beginners like me.