Thread: Stanley no 4 1/2 smoother.

Malcolm,
send me a PM with your address and I'll drop one in the post for you.

They have been breeding in the dark, the dirty things....

Regards,
Peter

Originally Posted by Malcolm Eaton

I have come in possession of parts of a Stanley no 4 1/2 smoother which needs a bit of loving care and refurbishment. The unit is missing the timber handle, front knob and the brass height adjusting knob ( nut) and the screw that attaches the brass knob to the frog.
The screw and brass knob as I can assertain is 9/32 left hand thread - 24 tpi unc.
I have cleaned up the main base of the plane and in the course of making the timber front knob and handle, my problem is now coming in possession of the brass height adjusting knob and the screw. If any member happens to have a spare brass knob and screw suitable for a Stanley no 4 1/2 lying around and willing to sell please PM me with cost of the items.
Regards
Malcolm Eaton

Further to my posting on refurbish of Stanley 4 1/2 I have become aware that this particular model does not have provision for the for and aft adjustment of the frog.
There is no provision made in the main plane base or in the frog to take the adjusting screw, that is, the both pieces have not been drilled or tapped. The only method of adjustment is loosening the holding down screws and adjusting the frog by hand and then retighening the screws.
This is the 1st time I have come across this feature on a Stanley plane over my 60 years in the trade, perhaps it was incorporated during the 2 nd World War period to save time and costs?
The plane I have is English made and appears to be 40 or 50 years old.
I wonder if any one else has become aware of this feature.
In the mean time with the aid and generosity of Peter in supplying me the brass adjusting knob the refurbish is progressing well.

Malcolm Eaton.

Peter will likely comment here with further detail, but the frog adjuster "only" appeared on Stanley planes in the early 1900's, and I think it was borrowed from the Bedrocks of the time.
Prior to that Stanley planes did not have it.
It may also be that during WW2 this feature may have been dropped on UK planes for a time (wartime shortages etc) - certainly there are WW2 US planes that have it.
Sargents never had this feature and neither did Australian post war Carters
Cheers
SG

Originally Posted by Malcolm Eaton

Further to my posting on refurbish of Stanley 4 1/2 I have become aware that this particular model does not have provision for the for and aft adjustment of the frog.
There is no provision made in the main plane base or in the frog to take the adjusting screw, that is, the both pieces have not been drilled or tapped. The only method of adjustment is loosening the holding down screws and adjusting the frog by hand and then retighening the screws.
This is the 1st time I have come across this feature on a Stanley plane over my 60 years in the trade, perhaps it was incorporated during the 2 nd World War period to save time and costs?
The plane I have is English made and appears to be 40 or 50 years old.
I wonder if any one else has become aware of this feature.

AFAIK the first company to make Bailey type planes in England was Record, who put out perfect copies (albeit marked "Record") of the USA Stanleys of the time, from 1930/31. Stanley bought out JA Chapman about 1936 and began producing English Stanley planes. In both cases they had frog adjusters from day one. Record didn't drop the frog adjuster until they released a "budget" range (the SP4 & SP5) in 1992. AFAIK Stanley never dropped the frog adjuster on English made planes, so yours could be unique.

Maybe an employee "borrowed" some incomplete parts off the production line and assembled his own...

Cheers, Vann.

Just a thought:

JA Chapman started producing planes in 1934, roughly two years before they were bought out by Stanley. Their planes were sold under the "Acorn" brand. When Stanley took over they continued to manufacture "Acorn" planes as well as the Stanley "Bailey" line. The Acorn planes were never fitted with frog adjusters.

So I wonder if your plane is an "Acorn"? The sole on a Stanley has the word "Bailey" and the plane No. cast into it, as well as "Made in England", whereas the "Acorn" only has "Made in England". Acorns were painted red, while Stanleys were black, but a previous owner may have repainted yours. The handles on Acorn planes aren't stained brown/black like Stanleys. Finally, Acorn planes have an earlier version of the "Bailey" frog where the toe of the frog is cantilevered towards the mouth of the plane - i.e. there is no support immediately above the mouth.

HTH.

Cheers, Vann

Got some photos Mal?

Originally Posted by Vann

Just a thought:

JA Chapman started producing planes in 1934, roughly two years before they were bought out by Stanley. Their planes were sold under the "Acorn" brand. When Stanley took over they continued to manufacture "Acorn" planes as well as the Stanley "Bailey" line. The Acorn planes were never fitted with frog adjusters.

So I wonder if your plane is an "Acorn"? The sole on a Stanley has the word "Bailey" and the plane No. cast into it, as well as "Made in England", whereas the "Acorn" only has "Made in England". Acorns were painted red, while Stanleys were black, but a previous owner may have repainted yours. The handles on Acorn planes aren't stained brown/black like Stanleys. Finally, Acorn planes have an earlier version of the "Bailey" frog where the toe of the frog is cantilevered towards the mouth of the plane - i.e. there is no support immediately above the mouth.

HTH.

Cheers, Vann

I checked out the plane again it is definately stamped Bailey as well as Made in England. I could not find any numbers stamped into the base except a no 8 which is located in the base where the recess is located under the handle.
There is one feature which I have noted and that is the metal pall that locates onto the brass knob that raises and lowers the blade is not a metal casting as on most Stanley planes of this type but is formed from pressed steel sheet, it is made up in 2 pieces which lie side by side to each other with the axle pin running through the centre and hense forming the pall which in turn locates onto the Brass knob to raise or lower the blade. The frog is stamped Stanley on the arm that adjusts the blade to left or right.
I happen to have a frog of a Turner 4 1/2 plane which has the pall made from a casting, the shape is very close to a match of a Stanley plane pall. I am not sure if you could change it over as a replacement for the pressed steel part.
I will try to get some photos in the next day or so of the plane and the frog .
Regards
Malcolm Eaton

The split yoke/pall began life on US Stanley planes in the early 1960's.
Not sure when this happened for UK planes but would venture to suggest that it was likely post WW2.
I am really looking forward to seeing pictures.
Cheers
SG

Originally Posted by Malcolm Eaton

I checked out the plane again it is definately stamped Bailey as well as Made in England. I could not find any numbers stamped into the base except a no 8 which is located in the base where the recess is located under the handle... The frog is stamped Stanley on the arm that adjusts the blade to left or right.

It definitely a Stanley then (not Acorn). The "8" has no significance - it's a reference to the pattern used in the casting.

Originally Posted by Malcolm Eaton

There is one feature which I have noted and that is the metal pall that locates onto the brass knob that raises and lowers the blade is not a metal casting as on most Stanley planes of this type but is formed from pressed steel sheet, it is made up in 2 pieces which lie side by side to each other with the axle pin running through the centre and hense forming the pall which in turn locates onto the Brass knob to raise or lower the blade.

As SG says, that's a feature introduced in the 1960s - it's hard to get accurate dating on UK Stanleys, so any figures I use could be +/- 5 years. By the early 1970s they had replaced the brass wheel with a plated steel wheel, but during the 1980s they went back to a brass wheel and cast (but not cast iron) yoke (or Y lever). About the same time they changed to resin (plastic) handles. Also about the same time they changed to including a 5 digit number on the casting, in lieu of, or as well as, the plane number.

I wonder if the lack of a plane number means this is a transitional plane around the time the plane number was removed but before the 5 digit number was added - i.e. 1980s.

Originally Posted by Malcolm Eaton

I will try to get some photos in the next day or so of the plane and the frog.

Looking forward to seeing them.

Cheers, Vann.

ps. The yoke from the Turner frog will probably fit (trial & error), however it may be of more value to a Turner collector. The pressed yoke will work, but if you want a cast one offer the Turner frog in exchange for a Stanley one on the Market Place on this forum.

Originally Posted by Scribbly Gum

The split yoke/pall began life on US Stanley planes in the early 1960's.
Not sure when this happened for UK planes but would venture to suggest that it was likely post WW2.
I am really looking forward to seeing pictures.
Cheers
SG

At long last I have got around to take photos of the Stanley no 4 1/2 after I have finished the restoration.
I have only carried out minimal work on the actual restoration to the finishes, this has been mainly a good degrease and clean down. The paint finish is as original and the exposed metal surfaces have only had minimal linishing with wet and dry. I noted the metal has a distinct greyish patena colouring effect which I thought I would retain as it gave a natural ageing.
In relation to the for and aft adjuster which had nether been fitted or provision made to accommodate the fitting I have fabricated the plate, drilled and tapped the main base and the frog to accept the plate. The plane now has for and aft adjustment.
In the case of the missing handle and front knob I have cut out shaped a new handle and turned up new front knob , these have been made from American Walnut and finished in polyurathane. I was lucky as the odd parts of the plane that I came across included odd bits and pieces and included the bolts and brass caps to secure the handle and knob.
Thanks to Lightfoot who was able to supply me with the brass adjusting knob which allowed me to complete the restoration of the unit.
The original blade was in a shocking state and I replaced with a spare part used
( Australian made) blade that I had. The cap iron and chip breaker is original.
You will note in the photos the two piece pressed metal pall that locates on the brass knob.
The plane is now in working condition.
Cheers.
Malcolm Eaton