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  1. #1
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    Default New Stanley 62 - would you accept or send this back?

    Hi Ho,

    I've heard many stories of the new Stanley no. 62 LAJ being a bit hit and miss from the factory, but I'm inexperienced with hand planes, so I'm unsure if the one I just received is acceptable, or whether I should send it back. I can see it's not manufactured to the same standard as LN or Veritas. There's some machine marks on the frog/body, the black coating is patchy in spots, and there's an odd stain or two on the wooden handles. But that's alright, it's half the price, so I'm not expecting perfection.

    I think the frog might be skewed. I've loaded the plane iron 4-5 times now. Each time, after sighting down the sole and dialling the blade in to get an even cut across the whole blade, the result is shown in photo. I'm just about maxing out the lateral adjustment too, and I'm being careful to position the iron in the centre of the frog when I load it in.

    So:
    • Does this suggest the frog is not machined perpendicular to the opening?
    • Is there a way to fix it (I'm gonna guess not so much, since the frog is part of the plane body)?
    • Does it really matter? Would you accept this or send for replacement?


    I think probably a little bit of skew doesn't make a material difference, so long as there's enough adjustment to get blade in the same height across the full width. But I also think it probably should be a bit better than this.

    What are your thoughts, experienced hand plane users?

    Cheers, -RW

    plane.jpg

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  3. #2
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    Default

    I had a rush of blood many years ago and bought one of the then new Sweetheart LAJs in the US when I was over there on business. It spent a lot of years in the cupboard because I could never manage to take a shaving with it no matter how well I sharpened the blade. Obviously I couldn't take it back. One day I got around to checking the sole against a straight edge and actually realized how concave it was. After lapping the sole for a couple of hours the plane finally started to take shavings and I think I might have also had to file a bit out of the corners of the bed to get the blade fully seated. The circular mill thing they used on the bed didn't reach into squarish corners. The machining of the castings on mine clearly left a lot to be desired. I believe mine was from an early batch made in Mexico and was sold off a display rack at Woodcraft during one of their holiday sales.

    If they are still making them in the same place and the same way I think they need to be considered a fettling project out of the box and not ready to go. Not a LN or a Veritas, but not the same prices either.

    I'm reasonably happy with it now. I was using it just yesterday to happily champher a cross grain end of a pine board. The A2 blade keeps a nice edge.
    Franklin

  4. #3
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    Default

    Have you checked to see if the edge of the blade is square against both edges?

    Also check the rear of the mouth is square against the sole; if the frog was machined out of square then the rear of the mouth will also be skewed. If the machined surface doesn’t extend all the way into the mouth then look at the very edge of the mouth opening; the thickness of the frog bed should be even all the way from left to right when the mouth is square across the sole.

    IF the back of the blade is FLAT another check you could do is to coat the back of the blade with Texta and rub it on the bed (remove the adjuster first!) to see where it’s contacting. The black will rub onto the bed high spots; any obviously high spots can be gently rubbed down with a 4” smooth file.

    I bought the Luban LAJ last year; one thing I noticed immediately is that the lateral adjustment is very limited; I have to ensure that my blades are 100% square across the edge and centred on the frog before tightening up the cap screw.
    Nothing succeeds like a budgie without a beak.

  5. #4
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    I have one of these, and I had a bit of a problem with it. I noticed when I changed the cap iron to a Luban one, it gave me a lot of improvement.

  6. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chief Tiff View Post
    Have you checked to see if the edge of the blade is square against both edges?
    I have now! It’s pretty good. Maybe slightly off square, but nothing to write home about. It’d a very small fraction of of a millimetre, to the point where I don’t think it’d come out of the honing jig (veritas mk II) any better than it is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chief Tiff View Post
    Also check the rear of the mouth is square against the sole; if the frog was machined out of square then the rear of the mouth will also be skewed. If the machined surface doesn’t extend all the way into the mouth then look at the very edge of the mouth opening; the thickness of the frog bed should be even all the way from left to right when the mouth is square across the sole.
    This might be the culprit. The mouth is square to the sides, but it’s not perfectly uniform. For example, on one side in the bottom corner, there’s a tiny section that is 0.2mm narrower when measuring the mouth opening with accurate digital calipers. I can see a little ‘step’ where it hasn’t been machined fully. But .2mm, seems a tiny amount.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chief Tiff View Post
    IF the back of the blade is FLAT another check you could do is to coat the back of the blade with Texta and rub it on the bed (remove the adjuster first!) to see where it’s contacting. The black will rub onto the bed high spots; any obviously high spots can be gently rubbed down with a 4” smooth file.
    Haven’t tried this yet. The back of the blade looks flat under an engineer’s square, but I don’t want to put it on the sharpening plates, because I may send it back.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chief Tiff View Post
    I bought the Luban LAJ last year; one thing I noticed immediately is that the lateral adjustment is very limited; I have to ensure that my blades are 100% square across the edge and centred on the frog before tightening up the cap screw.
    Yep, I’m doing the same. It’s very fiddly, but when I load the plane iron, it is centred and square to the mouth. Then I half tighten the cap, and start extending the blade, making small lateral adjustments as I sight down the sole to get the blade height the same from side to side. A test cut verifies the blade height. But every time, the blade ends up skewed like the photo.

  7. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by justonething View Post
    I have one of these, and I had a bit of a problem with it. I noticed when I changed the cap iron to a Luban one, it gave me a lot of improvement.
    Interesting. What problem were you having?

    I’m not sure I’m up for fettling with this. I especially don’t want to buy other tools so I can fix it, or buy parts replacement parts. I’m inclined to just send it back and put the dollars toward a veritas of LN.

    It’s possible - maybe even likely? - that it’s something I’m doing… but I can’t figure out what.

  8. #7
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    Try contacting the manufacturer (phone or email) sometimes you can speak to the technical department and they can help with a few issues. If they cannot help. Ask them if it can be repaired, replaced or refunded.

  9. #8
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    Just send it back. Get the good one and spend your time making stuff and mess.

  10. #9
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    A difference in width from side to side of the the mouth opening is a good indication that something is askew, but it doesn't tell you for sure if it's the front of the mouth (which manufacturers often don't take as many pains with) or the bed that's out of whack. However, given the symptoms you describe, it seems more likely it's the bed that causing you grief. The lower the bed angle, the more you need to skew the blade to correct the slightest skew in the bed, or edge of the blade, & it doesn't take much of either to get past the point where lateral adjustment can cope. I've learnt this lesson very thoroughly making my chariot planes and various other low-angle planes.

    I can empathise with your dilemma. You have to go to the hassle & bother of sending it back, & convincing the seller it's not fit for purpose, but if you try any fixes, and don't succeed in curing the problem, you're stuck with it! It may be that the bed was machined slightly askew (Rob Lee once mentioned on this forum how difficult it is to machine low-angle beds with the necessary consistency & accuracy), or it could be as simple as a high spot at the corner of the bed - it only takes a teeny amount that you can't see with the naked eye. I can vouch it's a common problem when forming beds with files because regular files don't cut a clean 90 deg. corner. The machined bed should be much closer, but if the milling tool was near the end of its run, it could be worn enough to leave a less-than-perfect corner which a lazy operator or QC checker may not notice (or care about). A mug like me would probably take it on as a challenge, but unless you are confident with an equalling file or a scraper & tuning-up machined surfaces, I think it would be wise to go the return route & hope for better luck next round.

    A 62-type plane is not a tool I felt I had a great need for, so I took a chance on a Chinese-made knock-off. I bought it more or less on impulse at a wood show (back in the days when we had such things & they were still worth attending!). The price was very attractive compared with the North American equivalents & I thought surely after all my years of fiddling with planes I should be able to make the darn thing work tolerably enough to do the small number of jobs I'd use it for. I remember it did have some very minor teething problem, but can't for the life of me remember what it was now (it was more than 10 years back, so please forgive my ageing neurons ), but after attending to whatever it was, it worked like a charm. It's every bit as good as my Veritas low-angle smoother, & in fact I much prefer using it to the Veritas these days which gets so little use I think it ought to find a new home where it gets more love & attention!

    Cheers,
    IW

  11. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanW View Post
    However, given the symptoms you describe, it seems more likely it's the bed that causing you grief. The lower the bed angle, the more you need to skew the blade to correct the slightest skew in the bed, or edge of the blade, & it doesn't take much of either to get past the point where lateral adjustment can cope.
    Cheers,
    Yeah, in this case, the lateral adjuster is juuuuust enough. I can get the blade height consistent, but it results in a significant skew. Working with a skewed blade will probably cut fine, but it will make it hard to close the mouth up for finer shavings. I know without honing the cutting edge (it's sharp, but I'd want it a lot sharper for a fine shaving)...

    It's easy to return - Amazon. So I think I'll just go ahead and get a refund.

    I'm interested in the LAJ as a workhorse. It will likely see a lot of work over a long time, so makes sense to buy one that do the job properly, and doesn't cause frustration every time I want to use it. The extra few hundred now seems very worth it!

    Normally I live by the 'buy the best you can afford' for tools. Every time I stray from it, it get burned. It seems to be a particularly true for woodworking!

  12. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogerwilco View Post
    Interesting. What problem were you having?

    I’m not sure I’m up for fettling with this. I especially don’t want to buy other tools so I can fix it, or buy parts replacement parts. I’m inclined to just send it back and put the dollars toward a veritas of LN.

    It’s possible - maybe even likely? - that it’s something I’m doing… but I can’t figure out what.
    Reading your post and realised that yours is a Low angle Jack plane. Then my experience wouldn't apply because I was referring to a bevel down bench plane.
    For Low angle jack, I've always preferred Veritas with a PMV11 iron. Is Veritas that much more expensive than a brand new stanley 62?

  13. #12
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    I paid about A$250 for the Stanley. The Veritas is closer to $500, and after this experience I’d say very likely worth the money. But they’re on pretty deep back order. ETA April 2022.

    So I will either grab a standard 2nd hand bevel down #5 bench plane for the meantime, and convert that to a scrub plane when the LAJ arrives, or, I’ll get the Luban.

  14. #13
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    I already sent the Stanley back. No hard feelings. It was worth a punt at $250. And Amazon returns are very painless.

  15. #14
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    Rogerwilco, there is a tasty 5 1/2 up on ebay right now.... Veritas Custom Bench Plane 5 1/2 | eBay

  16. #15
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    That’s juicy. Might have a go. Resale on such a plane is likely quite good, so if I can pay a fair price I’d be keen.

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